On the lameness of the MSM blogs

'somewhere' (2.00 / 2)

That's Binghamton, Bouldin, where a Dem County Exec now sits in the County Building, a Dem Mayor now sits in City Hall (BTW-- he's a big indy media fan), and a Dem Assemblywoman's office is now in the State Building, and Congressman Hinchey sits in the Federal Building. Libous and his BBQ are the strongest thing NYS Republicans have right now... and he is surrounded. Ya'll from "the center of the universe" tell us upstate half-the-state's-population how forgettable and inconsequential we are again, ok? It makes you look all equity-minded. 

Some of us are actully interested in more than one kind of thing, for more than one kind of reason. Give the First Amendment its due, and may the clicks go to where the reader finds value. This particular post, unlike most of your well-thoguht out and well-written work, is a rant. Build bridges, don't burn 'em.

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by: robinia @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 02:11:00 AM UTC

I don't think Bouldin was mad.. (4.00 / 2)

because the MSM blogs covered an upstate event. Rather, his bone to pick as I read it, is with the fact that the 'professionals' are not performing their duties of investigatory journalism. Instead of probing Bruno's manufactured/astroturf controversy, they stick to juicy tag lines and "he said she said".

Into this vacuum of meaningful political discourse steps the (unpaid) NY netroots community, largely unnoticed or unrecognized by those 'blogs' attached to newspapers.

  Here I think Bouldin is justified in his disdain; Newsday's Spin Cycle regularly blogs certain stories literally months after the netroots, and yet they do not even recognize independent blogs with links on the blogroll.

Newspaper blogrolls are emblematic of the incestuous, closed-off nature of the MSM "blogosphere", if you could even call it that.

That amateurs like us run circles around the MSM is frustrating, if not for personal pride than for the fact that it's a disservice to our democracy.

Peter King writes me Nasty Letters.

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by: tzfoley @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 04:45:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Of course it's a rant (4.00 / 1)

...and there are plenty of things to rant about. What we had here was a coordinated effort to smear the governor directly linked to Bruno, and the coverage we got was lazy, hesitant, and slow. I choose the barbecue example not because of any innate desire to slam any place in the state, but to show how idiotic this kind of discourse is. For example, CapCon actually picked up Phil's piece on the emails, with a note that this kind of stuff didn't matter. No, it doesn't matter that they'd been lied to and pwnd.

Lastly, I deeply resent the implication of dismissiveness towards upstate. See that banner about the Brodsky bill? I made that, and it's running off my server. I've been writing about issues upstate and in WNY for over two years. I have been publicly and privately lobbying for greater attention to upstate for a very long time, especially from City folks.

So frankly, your knee-jerk reaction both misses my point and says more about your biases than about what you claim to be mine. 

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by: Michael Bouldin @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 12:25:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Really? (0.00 / 0)

That's great that you are working for the Brodsky bill, but I was not noticing that, despite best efforts (I'm promoting it, too), it was gaining much traction.  Will be seeing my Assemblywoman this evening, and do intend to ask how she thinks it is going. Am interested in what the political obstacles are.

I find a good bit of value in blogs associated with certain newspapers around the state-- primarily in their ability to elicit place-based opinions from minority places and widespread viewpoints.  The world really does look different from other vantage points.  Political reporting is the art of highlighting various vantage points.  What is important to one person is less so to another. Interesting and politically useful to hear various voices.

The sea-change in how folks get information in the wired age means that, more and more, we can limit our absorption of news to venues that match our worldviews.  That has upsides, but, it has downsides, too.  There is, in my opinion, some real value in a more "public square" atmosphere in some venues, in order to welcome a wide range.  That might involve rules that limit certain modes of expression (i.e., your rant has more expletives than CapCon would tolerate), and an attempt to highlight news items of interest to a lot of little niche audiences.  And, yeah, when you act dismissive about stuff that is important to that niche audience, they feel dissed. No matter what your record of doing or writing things "for" them.  We all resent paternalism, knee-jerkily, or more thoughtfully. If you can't bother to call a city by its name, its hard to believe that you understand its problems or its potential.

There are voting people out here in the great state of NY-- not just a few, but LOTS of them-- to whom summer political BBQs and what happens at them is WAY more important than the intricacies of which politician pays which spammer.  Myself, I am very impressed with your work figuring this Stone-Caputo thing out.  So are bloggers with this interest nationwide.  It surely was not picked up in my local newspaper, and the public TV station is covering the State Fair. And, nobody at last night's Dem social event up here in the oasis was likely to care enough for me to mention it, either.  It's a stretch to get them interested in something as techy as the perils of Diebolt touch-screen voting.

The work of a cultural worker is to make the truth such a compelling and fascinating story that it is irresistible.  Rants against the less-progressive may comfort the choir, but they are not the means by which to attract the attention of a broader audience.  I'm all for making TAP a comortable place for some of the MSM blogs to link to from time to time, or the Governor to post to. But, I don't think that will mean that we tell them when or how to do that.  We will, I think, just have to be irresistibly fascinating, and hope for the best.

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by: robinia @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 13:39:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh please... (0.00 / 0)

...you still don't get it. First of all, the barbecue was one example out of god alone knows how many I could have picked, so your obsessive focusing, again, on an imagined slight serves no purpose but to demonstrate your obvious belief that everyone who is not from upstate looks down on the region. That's simply not the case, and it would be rather productive if you managed to knock that particular chip off your shoulder. That your takeaway from this is my supposed intolerance of Binghamton views is little short of laughable.

Second, also in the department of "You don't get it", I'll say it again: we uncovered a conspiracy against the governor. If you think that's not a big deal, especially when the various MSM bronto-"blogs" have been writing about this without getting the actual story, I can't help you.

The world really does look different from other vantage points.  Political reporting is the art of highlighting various vantage points.  What is important to one person is less so to another. Interesting and politically useful to hear various voices.

Freed from the grating therapy-speak, yeah, of course. Also my point, which is that the MSM is shutting out voices from the blogosphere.

The work of a cultural worker is to make the truth such a compelling and fascinating story that it is irresistible.

Get a life and stop babbling. My point is that we can publish basically whatever we want and still get ignored. This is not because we don't create compelling vehicles, it's because there's an institutional bias, strengthened by both ignorance and laziness, and rather widely observed beyond the confines of the NY blogosphere, of the MSM to ignore or misrepresent Progressive blogs. The problem is not with us, it is with them.

End of story.

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by: Michael Bouldin @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 14:37:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ouch, indeed (0.00 / 0)

Really mean talk there, toward me this time, not the "MSM" baddies.  I'm "laughable" I "just don't get it" I should "get a life,"  I "babble" etc. 

OK, lurkers here-- are you cool enough to post, or, if you don't measure up on the "what it means to be a with-it blogger" scale, will the brave bestest "I get it and you don't" guys (and yes, when the conversation gets like this, most of the women do leave) turn on you, too?

I'm really so sorry that the MSM world did not acknowledge you as much as you think they should have.  Happen to have spent a lot of time the past couple of days w/staff from NY congressional offices, my Assemblywoman, other prominent Dems.  Nobody seems worked up about this. You know, Republicans have conspiracies against the Governor every Tuesday and Thursday afternoons or so.  It is cool, and a testament to your analytical prowess, that you cracked this one.  But, it is, at core, about spam and crank phone calls. Not a lot of missing millions of dollars or dead children.

I don't always get ignored by the media, so, I don't  feel so angry with them.  Sorry about your troubles. 

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by: robinia @ Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 01:12:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nice. (4.00 / 1)

So now I'm burning bridges, dissing Binghamton, and driving women away to boot.

Whatever.

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by: Michael Bouldin @ Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 21:02:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I comment at CapCon (4.00 / 1)

primarily as a way to, hopefully, influence reporters.

If all they get is the Sweeneybots and Spitzer-haters on various GOP payrolls, they may get the idea that most of the people interested in politics are Republicans, and may shade their political coverage that way.

The blog itself is mostly lame -- links to TU and other stories and very little extra writing or analysis. Though they are allegedly short-handed since Liz left many months ago.

Most of all, the lack of comment-moderation and new content at night and on weekends shows that they just don't get it.

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by: devtob @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 12:55:53 PM UTC

if (4.00 / 5)

MSM "bloggers" never venture out and post comments on other bloggers' blogs, they're not bloggers.  Period.

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by: NYCO @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 13:00:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stories (4.00 / 1)

I have to say, though, that this all seems like re-inventing the wheel, no matter who originates what story.  I mean... stop the presses, sneaky GOP operatives dislike Gov. Spitzer!

Maybe what's needed is a sense of perspective.  I hate to see the NYS blogosphere spend too much time on this stuff instead of illuminating real issues.  When this happens, the blogs aren't leading the discussion -- they're just following the same old Albany sideshow.  And then, waste even more time and blogspace with chest-beating and finger-pointing at MSM.  Yes the MSM can be rather dull and hidebound.

As I replied to a member of the "MSM" (who is a self-identified blogger, and IMO, a "real" blogger) on my own blog recently in a post about this subject... and a message I would address to fellow bloggers as well:

To be honest a lot of the sturm und drang over journalists vs. blogs seems to be about ego more than anything. “memememememeeeeee!” And yes, some of the things uttered by newspaper editors are annoying and self-serving too; don’t understand why they sometimes feel the need to take potshots at blogs. It seems to me that traditional media and all this other weird stuff (ie blogs) coexist best when everyone is focused on community issues and not so much on their own navels.

As for old-boy clubs, and the paycheck issuer influencing what journalists write? Well, we’re ALL paid by someone. There’s a huge hole in this blog’s Syracuse-based “coverage,” that is in the shape of my employer. (Solely my decision) Therefore… “the more the merrier.” Instead of getting all resentful about the facts of life, everyone should just work together and encourage each other; and perhaps once in a while these facts-of-life limitations can be transcended. That doesn’t mean never criticizing, but what’s with all the peacock displays and turf wars?

The post is here.

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by: NYCO @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 12:57:08 PM UTC

Since you asked... (0.00 / 0)

Forgive this lame and clueless MSMer for treading on your sacred ground. I usually wouldn't intrude, but if you're going to bash me personally, would you at least have the courage to identify yourself and perhaps say it to my face instead of sucker-punching? It seems to me you're pissed that I don't link to you enough, which I find fascinating since I did, in fact, link to your contribution to further unveiling the Stone/Caputo connection. That's not zero links. And I've also linked to Daily Gotham. (If you would like proof of this, I can provide it). Perhaps you ought to pay a bit more attention to what you're saying. Do a little of that investigative journalism you think so highly of. Sorry if you're not a fan of my work. May I suggest that you simply don't read it? At the very least, go ahead and bash my work all you want. But if you wouldn't mind refraining from personal attacks, I would greatly appreciate it. Or perhaps you could man (or woman) up and contact me. Because my email and my phone number and my cell number and my fax number (and my face, for that matter) are all public, which makes me personally accountable for everything I write - and that, in my opinion, is the difference here. At least you know who you're dealing with.

- Liz B.

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by: DNbenjy @ Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 22:22:24 PM UTC

First of all (0.00 / 0)

...you get, no snark, major props for posting here. Come back soon, sign up at TDG as well, you'll be welcome.

Second, I don't see any personal attacks here. Please point them out, if you would. If you can, I'll apologize.

Third, of course you have my contact info - you've emailed me. You have my full name, phone number, email, whatnot. Reason I didn't email you about this is simply that I've emailed you before, without getting a response, usually. Plus, my contact info is on the front page of Daily Gotham - yes, the editors-at email reaches me.

Fourth, frankly, considering the ink this entire story has received, and the fact that we proved the connection, the story should be pretty clear. A Bruno employee coordinated a campaign against Spitzer and lied about it. That's the story. And it's not being told.

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by: Michael Bouldin @ Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 02:45:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Liz (0.00 / 0)

As per comments above, I think Bouldin's careless and hurtful words in this post are unhelpful to our mission, although I generally appreciate his efforts.  He does not believe that he is dissing you, me, Binghamton, and driving away women readers from the site, but, IMHO, he is.

I'm a big fan of your work, and I hope that you won't stop reading or linking to this site because if a few posters get pissed off if they don't get the attention they think they deserve.

As far as anonymity goes, it is a double-edged sword.  On the one hand, it is absolutely true that a screen name makes a person less accountable for what they post.  On the other hand, it may, like a journalist using an "inside source," allow people to comment who would otherwise have to say nothing.  For me, my marginally-employed status and need to attract more work means that it would be difficult to say the things I say if a google-search of my name would alert a prospective employer or client to all of my political views.

One of the ways that the downside of anonymous posting can be mitigated is by the establishment of reputation under the screen name.  In the "what are the rules of blogging, anyway" category, it is not clear to me (ok, I'm a grandmother-- go ahead and toast me for not being cool enough, Bouldin) whether one must carry the same reputation and screen name everywhere all the time.  In posting to the CapCon blog, I found that aggressive taunts were leveled at anyone who posted here at TAP, so, I posted there (and, occassionally now, at your new blog home) using a different screen name (ruralgeek).  But, do I risk being skewered here for doing that there?  Then, in my hometown, a small community of a few thousand, I post under my real name (and am careful not to be too controversial, as it does show up in a google search).  Nothing would please me more than to have enough income and respect to exercise my free speech rights without fear of punishment.  That punishment can come from the right, the left, and timid people in the center who might be afraid to hire a researcher or ag development specialist with a political activism hobby is a sad fact of life.  And, yet, if we who can think and write don't, who will?

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by: robinia @ Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 09:50:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]