Spitzer dropping license plan

The plan might have been good (4.00 / 4)

But the roll-out sucked quite badly. The support just wasn't there and likely would have been poison to every other part of his agenda as well as hurting our chances at taking out Bruno. We have to wait quite a while when the entire thing cools down.

Reality has a well known liberal Bias-Stephen Colbert

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by: pierredude @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 03:14:25 AM UTC

Better late than never (4.00 / 3)

Whatever the merits of this, the politics were terrible, even in NY.

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by: devtob @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 03:18:29 AM UTC

Precisely devtob... (4.00 / 2)

The political part of this was ugly. It showed the true colors of some of these pimps.

By the way, nice diary on DKos. I'll be recommending and commenting, for sure.

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 03:20:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The roll out didn't suck... (4.00 / 1)

it was the response. I don't think Spitzer expected guys like Tedisco to say that if this plan is implemented, Osama bin Laden would be sipping champagne. Here in upstate, with a conservative slant in many locales, people love to play the fear card. That was the number one killer of this plan.

Of course, you can commend Spitzer for knowing when to let go. He knew that this plan would just continue to be a thorn in his backside.

As for the Dems who are "hurt" by this, they hurt themselves. When the GOP is shouting louder, gathering supporters and rallying around a message of fear, you can't just sit back and let the governor take a thrashing. Let's face it, the GOP lowered the dialogue to a REAL low level. And they won... which is truly sad and disappointing.

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 03:19:10 AM UTC

Disagree-- the roll-out sucked (4.00 / 3)

Like a comedian, a political leader may have great material, but if his/her timing and delivery is off, it is to no avail.  Sure, the GOP took the cheap shots... but, if this had been done differently, it would not have been so easy for them to do.  Spitzer needs to stop making good arguments as if he were presenting things to a judge, and start understanding how to sell the public on his good policies.

That he did this directly before an election-- allowing the Republicans to use it to electoral advantage-- is particularly unfortunate.  In my opinion, one does not have to buy into dysfunctional leadership patterns in the legislature to be a team player.  In fact, not being a team player ends up being kinda dysfunctional in its own way, doesn't it?

Next time, get some advice and support from allies before jumping in with all that ambition and initiative.

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by: robinia @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:14:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So... (0.00 / 0)

if Spitzer presented this differently, it would've made THAT much of a difference?

I beg to differ. I don't say that to be combative, but you can't dispute the fact that when it comes to immigration, the Republican Party loves to jump on it. With this, Spitzer could've had dozens of endorsements and backers... it wouldn't have mattered.

After all, the GOP never discussed the merits of Spitzer's plan. All they did was try to associate with a plan that would give driver's licenses to terrorists.

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:36:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

where to start? (4.00 / 4)

he could have worked to build a consensus that something even needed to be done for starters. this wasn't exactly on anyone's radar. he could have built a coalition of stakeholders before announcing. he could have had all hose folks as well as the richard clarkes and law enforcement at his side when he announced it. he could have made the case once they dropped it instead of letting the other side work their ridiculous (and effective) messaging on it for the first 10 days or so. i mean, they completely surrendered the megaphone on this and it killed this plan in the crib.

he could have the sense to realize that, noble as the policy may have been, that it was going to be a tough sell. he could have actually attempted to sell it.

he didn't do any of these things and it doomed this plan from the get go.

what i'm trying to say is that the rollout did indeed suck.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:45:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Come on... (0.00 / 0)

How can you say he should build a consensus when even our federal government can't find common ground on this issue? You're asking him to do something that's been impossible on the federal level and even moreso on the state level.

Let's face it, when these endorsements came out, they had no effect. The Republicans took the plan and spun it the way they wanted to. They made the plan seem to be a plan that gives driver's licenses to illegals... or, even better for them, terrorists.

What I'm saying is the rollout had nothing to do with it. Spitzer could've done everything you suggested. I'm sure that would've pleased some people, but you have to look at how the Republicans approached this. They could care less with how Spitzer announced the plan. What mattered to them was the plan itself.

Essentially, we are having a debate here about a press conference. Meanwhile, the Republicans just won this round because they spun it the way they wanted to --- and people believed them.

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:57:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

those endorsements were a month too late (4.00 / 3)

and if you are going to introduce a policy that is sure to be controversial, maybe you could try to convince folks that there was even a problem there to solve before you do so. describe the problem, then the solution. for this plan, i actually would have started with a critique of the failure of the feds. they did none of this. and yeah, the GOoPs went apeshit. no surprise. but you can't let them seize the messaging from day one and run wild with it while you stay silent. the spitzer folks seemed to think that they could win solely on the strength of the ideas. it doesn't work that way. that's just dumb.

there's much more than a press conference that didn't happen.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:04:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My point... (0.00 / 0)

Either way, the GOP was going to seize the day and make the most out of this. We can sit here, in hindsight, and say Spitzer should've sweetened the deal for people and made this grand announcement later with numerous endorsements on his side, but either way, the Republicans would've taken their message to the masses.

Just look at the national immigration debate for a sneak peek. They use the same rhetoric there as they did in this state. So it definitely wouldn't have mattered.

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:00:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Robert... (4.00 / 2)

I don't think Spitzer expected guys like Tedisco to say that if this plan is implemented, Osama bin Laden would be sipping champagne.

...if Eliot was surprised by this, I think he was the only one. It's not as if the GoOpers haven't been throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him, and this was as predictable as the Darren Dopp meltdown.

I love Eliot. But his political instincts, or those of his team more likely, are in need of some sharpening. A lot of people privately saw this trainwreck the day he announced, sorta, the policy.

And meanwhile, all the other agenda items are in deep freeze. It's not worth it, and I say that thinking the governor's plan is good policy.

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by: Michael Bouldin @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:30:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

bingo. (4.00 / 2)

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:31:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bouldin... (0.00 / 0)

I never said that he didn't expect criticism, but you never know how people are going to spin something.

Just a small example, but in a local race, we had a candidate for Legislature who said we needed to improve relations with the state government. In response, the GOP decided to spin it and claimed that the candidate said if we improve relations with Albany, Gov. Spitzer will give us $15-$20 million for a jail project on our horizon.

The fact is that we have allowed ourselves to become critical of HOW the plan was put forth instead of the plan itself. We should be criticizing the Republicans for their approach, but instead, we are defending the governor or supporting the plan.

Really, when you look at this, the Republicans had a field day because they didn't have anyone standing up to them. My assemblyman (Hawley) passed a petition around in the local newspaper.

Just look at the mailings that went out during the election season. The GOP took advantage of it. You can say all you want about Spitzer's team and it certainly is easy to say "I told you so" over and over again, but even with the Clarke endorsement, it didn't help. It didn't improve the perceptions of this plan because people were being fed misinformation. If you ask the common citizen about this plan, they'd say it would give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

Why is that?

Because that's what the politicians in Albany and the media has fed them.

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:50:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Robert... (4.00 / 1)

...I don't mean to be harsh, but anyone surprised that republicans would make a big deal out of an idea that proposes drivers licenses for illegal immigrants doesn't belong in politics. That was as predictable as tomorrow's sunrise.

This is politics. The best policy will fail if there is no attempt to build political support for it. That's what Eliot's people failed to do, and unfortunately for them, political support is required, not optional, in a democracy.

This is, and it saddens me to say this, Eliot's fault, completely and entirely. And for this, all the other things that need to get done have been endangered. And now we're looking at the ashes not just of this policy, but of a lot of other stuff that is absolutely crucial, and that's going nowhere now.

What a way to throw your political capital out the window. I'm just stunned.

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by: Michael Bouldin @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 16:43:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

if you're blindsided by criticism, then your roll out sucks (4.00 / 3)

it's lobbying 101 that you float your plans before you roll them out so you can find out how people will react. there is no excuse for not knowing what major stakeholders are going to say about your plan before you make a major push on it. a key part of a good roll out is finding out in advance how people are going to react so you can line up your support in advance.

when you read stories about how we have to attack Iran, that is someone testing an argument (ok, not all of it, but some) to see how it will go over and how people will react to it - both for it and against it - so they can hone their message. just as an example, there could have been blog posts around the state talking about immigration by supportive Assemblymembers to test the waters and prepare people. this isn't rocket science or anything new, it's lobbying 101, and there's no excuse for not doing the legwork involved in it.

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC

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by: SteveinNYC @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:26:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

gays in the military (0.00 / 0)

I'm just not sure what inspires newcomers to launch programs that, however well-intentioned, trip all over long-standing and pretty well-known public opinion.

I really hope that 2008 isn't Spitzer's 1994. (It doesn't seem that likely, but I still can't imagine Spitzer having the power to get through even basic change to Albany's broken structures now.)

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by: simonstl @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 12:32:53 PM UTC

I think there's little chance of that (0.00 / 0)

every new governor I've seen up close (I've seen 5) has had a hard time finding their footing when they first came into office. Spitzer is on familiar ground, whether he knows it or not.

some recover and some don't. for example, Parris Glendening, who won in MD in '94, had little mandate and stepped on legislative toes when he first took office, but he rebounded quite well and was a very effective governor, one of the best I've seen.

there's a learning curve. I think Spitzer needs to bring in people with more experience to fill in the blind spots, but I think he can still recover and I think there's still a lot of public good will for him to draw on.

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC

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by: SteveinNYC @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 17:38:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

way too complicated (4.00 / 2)

This issue is just WAY too complicated for this have been anything but a disaster.  Even for someone adept at selling, which Spitzer is obviously not.

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by: NYCO @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 23:45:11 PM UTC