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SD-3: A TAP Community Member's Take on his home district

by: politics64

Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:24:17 AM EST


(I'm not putting this on the front page because I agree with every word. I don't. I do however value the input from a longtime resident of SD-3. I hope this encourages some conversation about this race. I just ask that you keep it civil, play nice and not let this devolve into yet another piefight.   - promoted by phillip anderson)

I read with utter fascination my fellow progressive bloggers comments regarding the potential Democratic nominee for this Long Island District that has been my home for forty years. I have read some patently partisan posts by supporters of the Democratic nominee of the past two cycles who regrettably used our progressive blogs to launch a preemptive-strike at the NYS DSCC and one of our local Democratic Islip Town Councilman, Chris Bodkin.  I also read with great interest Phillip Anderson's excellent post regarding a potential primary.  Phillip, who I respect greatly provided a very reasoned and sobering view of a primary challenge.  
politics64 :: SD-3: A TAP Community Member's Take on his home district
While I disagree with his framing of Councilman Bodkin using the Dahroug campaign meme of " a Republican who wants to be the Democratic candidate" I none the less wholeheartedly agree with his core sentiment of the healthy benefits of such a primary.  Phillip's post is far superior to other Dahroug supporters who seem more bent on vilifying a challenger they do not know, never interviewed and have only taken the Dahroug campaign spin on how to define him.  More to the point, these posters have little knowledge of the 3rd SD and many leave me with the feeling that they never stepped foot in my home district.

When my mom and dad purchased their Hauppauge home in May of 1969 much of Suffolk County was represented by one state senator. The growth of population was so robust between the 1960 and 1970 census that the county nearly doubled in population. By 1972, we had four state senate seats.  My Islip Township was numbered the brand new 3rd SD comprising all of Islip Town and the village of Patchogue in Brookhaven Town. A two term Islip Town Councilman named Caesar Trunzo was nominated for the seat by the Republicans.  He faced my fellow Hauppauge resident Fred Zirk and in the huge Nixon landslide over George McGovern, Trunzo easily went on to victory.

In 1974, I as a college sophomore befriended a young law school student named Gary Hausler.  Gary wanted to begin his career in politics by running against Trunzo.  It was a difficult race and Gary was underfunded and there were local Democrats who did not want to nominate him because up to two years earlier Gary was a registered republican who wanted to run for a newly created assembly seat.  The combination of local, thuggish republican party bosses and the Nixonian national scene brought Gary to the conclusion that the Republican Party was not right for him.  He was a solid progressive on his social views.  He was pro-choice, anti death penalty, pro ERA, pro gun control, believed in aprogressive income tax that made the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes.  I managed the campaign and with the post Watergate winds to our backs we came the closest to defeating Trunzo that any Democrat ever came losing 36,500 to 33,000 while spending all of $8500 and about two dozen pairs of shoes between use.

The district evolved with each passing census moving more and more to the east.  Today, the 3rd district is about 60% Islip Town and 40% Brookhaven Town running along the Brookhaven south shore from Blue Point (oysters anyone?) to Mastic Beach.  The partisan divide, like many districts has narrowed and presently there are just under 63K R's 55k D's and 58K Other as per the just published March 2008 NYS BOE numbers. This partisan R&D gap just 8k has closed up even more since the November 2006 election when the gap was just over 11k.

We all can see a real opportunity for a Democratic takeover of this district.  The Caesar of today is a mere shadow of the Caesar of old.  At the age of 82, his ability to campaign in a retail political sense is long over. Uncle Joe needs him to run because this district has no Republican bench strength to replace him with.  Brookhaven councilman Mazzei is the only elected official at the Town Board, County or state level below the State Senate for the Republicans.  I posted some time back on the deep Democratic bench of Three Assembly members, Four County Legislators, Two Town Supervisors and Three Town Councilman, and then there is Jimmy Dahroug.

I supported the good looking, intelligent Dean's Dozen Democrat in 2004 and 2006.  While inching closer in 2006 over his 2004 run, Jimmy did so in a much stronger Democratic year with powerful mid-term Democratic national winds to his back. More to the point, Jimmy's 2006 vote seemed to be the base Democratic vote that regrettably falls just short of being enough to win with.  A candidate who can win crossover votes from Republicans and Blanks is needed to assure victory in SD 3!

I became very active in local races in Islip Town in 2007 that saw our party take majority control of the Town Govt. for the first time in forty years and the second time in the last century. I met some really nice folks from the NYS DSCC at the Town HQ, several of whom I got to meet again in the Aubertine HQ when my wife and I recently traveled to Oswego.  They along with our WFP progressive partners were there to identify the voters and GOTV locally to prepare for this 2008 challenge of Trunzo.

I met the young man who was Jimmy's 2006 campaign manager and who informed me of some very disturbing aspects and weaknesses of Jimmy as a retail door to door type campaigner.  He advised that he would never work on his behalf again.  I spoke with the head of the Brentwood Hispanic Democratic Club who based in both Trunzo and Dahroug's home community felt that we needed a better candidate in 2008.  I met state senator Eric Schneiderman in Oswego, who inspired me and the entire progressive blogosphere with his transactional/transformational politics article in the Nation magazine.  He told me that he spoke with my congressman, Steve Israel about Chris Bodkin and that he felt comfortable that Bodkin is dedicated to the progressive principles and agenda that our new state senate majority will forward come January 2009!

I wrestled long and hard with my decision in this race.  It is not enjoyable to exchange heated opinions with so many of my fellow progressive bloggers on this race.  I am convinced that Jimmy cannot win in November, that Chris Bodkin, should he run, is a Democrat and will vote as a true Democrat on the issues important to us all.  In closing, I share a view that Philip so well articulated that Jimmy can use this as an opportunity to prove me and others wrong.  I am more than disturbed that Jimmy so feared a primary as to put his blogospheric team into rapid response that distorted and demonized his potential opponent even before he even announced his decision to run.  I look forward to following the events that will unfold in SD 3 and know that come November we will all be united in our ongoing efforts to reform Albany and end the era of Joe Bruno and his Republican State Senate Majority!

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I might sound like a broken record but I will ask it again... (4.00 / 1)
What Democratic principles does Chris Bodkin have?

Of course he will say that he's dedicated to defending progressive and Democratic principles. If anyone wants to get elected on our ticket, they have to say that. If he comes out and says "I'm a Republican" he's not going to get far as a Democratic candidate.

But again, I ask: What Democratic principles does he have? We can talk about how good or bad Jimmy's past campaigns have been. But this isn't about Jimmy. This is about Bodkin. Bodkin is being pushed as THE guy, apparently. So let's hear what Democratic principles he has.

I asked this question days ago and have yet to receive an answer. I'll keep asking until I receive one. Because until then, Bodkin's past will haunt him. He was considered a REPUBLICAN replacement to Trunzo at one time and has been eyeing this seat for quite some time.

I'm sick of this recycled non-sense about how bad Jimmy was. So what? If you're going to force Bodkin down our throats as a candidate who could be part of a Democratic takeover of the Senate, then we should know what he stands for.  


you're a broken record with a good point (0.00 / 0)
And this whole argument is deep in broken record territory. It could be that this is right -

Jimmy's 2006 vote seemed to be the base Democratic vote that regrettably falls just short of being enough to win with. A candidate who can win crossover votes from Republicans and Blanks is needed to assure victory in SD 3!

or it could be this is right -

weaknesses of Jimmy as a retail door to door type campaigner.

From my familiarity with the past races in the district, I think Dahroug is a weak campaigner, and we don't need to nominate a more conservative candidate. But the pro-Bodkin argument seems to be that Dahroug is to liberal for the district.

What I'd like to see is Dahroug explain how he will win, or Bodkin explain why he's not a Republican running on the Democratic line. (What I'd really like to see is a different candidate, and yes I do have a few in mind, and no I don't think any of them will run. I raise this only to point out that if institutional Dems were going to recruit someone to run they had more choices than Bodkin.)

I expect Dahroug's campaign strategy and Bodkin's campaign material will answer both questions. But I would prefer we get some new posts addressing these core arguments head on, instead of these same posts explaining why the other guy sucks (which may be true as well, but is hardly convincing).

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC


[ Parent ]
What's to say... (0.00 / 0)
that Jimmy goes out and campaigns hard this time around in SD-3? I know when I talk to him on Friday I will be pushing him to do so, because I've heard this complaint from pro-Jimmy and anti-Jimmy people.

I agree with you though Steve. Why lean on Bodkin if you're the institutional Dems? If Jimmy isn't their guy, find another Democrat (a true Democrat) to run. If we do out here in the rural sticks of NY, I'm sure they can manage to do so out on the Island.


[ Parent ]
Coupla points. (4.00 / 2)
First of all, 'some' bloggers as used in this post seems to refer to me as the author of the post in question, as does the piffle about 'Dahroug's internet response team'. Pardon me, but some more backup might be useful to sustain the implied charge of bias.

Second, the question of Dahroug's performance versus Spitzer or Hillary is kind of academic, and repetition does not make it less so. Democrats weren't able to avoid a primary in that seat in 2006, taking what was transparently the easy way out for a second-tier race by backing a self-financing challenger, one David Ochoa. He proceeded to lose the primary, whereupon the district largely fell off the radar of the DSCC, while retaining the WFP line in the general. By the metric of a Spitzer/Hillary comparison, for example, Eric Massa shouldn't be running again in NY-29, either, and Dave Mejias shouldn't even be considering this race, nor any of the Queens Democrats running against incumbents.

As to Eric Schneiderman, some people fault his cautious tactics in 2006 with the failure of the Democrats in taking back the Senate in 2006, that being, as this diarist notes, a banner year. I find it unhelpful to cast individual blame, so that's not my view, but yeah, 2006 was a missed opportunity for the DSCC. They basically left all challengers with the exception of Andrea Stewart-Cousins to fend for themselves, a game plan established in 2005 that remained completely unmodified through 2006, even as the scope of the Democratic landslide became apparent. If Jimmy's past performance is relevant, so is that of the DSCC.

Me, I am liking the idea of this primary more and more. This because there won't be much of a pivot between a campaign against Bodkin's record and that of Caesar Trunzo. That's a great opportunity to build up a ground game and have a public discussion about what New York Democrats stand for and how we want to govern.

Long story short, I find myself in agreement with this diarist about one thing: signs right now point to a primary, so it's time for the bitching to stop and the campaigning to start. Campaigns, meanwhile, are always a good thing.


past performance counts (0.00 / 0)
By the metric of a Spitzer/Hillary comparison, for example, Eric Massa shouldn't be running again in NY-29, either.

How so? Samara Barend was highly touted in 2004. She underperformed and didn't run again in '06. Massa did better than expected and better than Barend had, and that gave him the momentum to run again. The comparison between NY29 and SD3 cuts against Dahroug.

As to Eric Schneiderman, some people fault his cautious tactics in 2006 with the failure of the Democrats in taking back the Senate in 2006, that being, as this diarist notes, a banner year.

By your first point, who are "some people"? I think Schneiderman deserves credit for getting the Senate Dems to finally try and take over the state Senate.

2006 was a missed opportunity for the DSCC

If Jimmy's past performance is relevant, so is that of the DSCC.

On this we agree. But I read it as meaning Dahroug will need institutional help to win. If the institutional support is for Bodkin (which is by no means a given, but seems to be the assumption) then I'm not sure how this helps Dahroug.

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC


[ Parent ]
Yes and no. (0.00 / 0)
Massa did better than expected and better than Barend had, and that gave him the momentum to run again. The comparison between NY29 and SD3 cuts against Dahroug.

I'm not saying this is a good argument, quite the contrary. Our diarist asserts, however, that a comparison between the Spitzer results and those of other races has meaning, and I'm offering evidence to show that this argument fails. Jimmy also improved in 2006 versus 2004.

By your first point, who are "some people"? I think Schneiderman deserves credit for getting the Senate Dems to finally try and take over the state Senate.

Of course, and so does Liz Krueger. That said, in 2006, the goal was to get Stewart-Cousins elected and to defend Valesky, not more. As to "some people", I don't tend to quote my private conversations online, as opposed to the diarist, so you'll have to take my word for it.

But I read it as meaning Dahroug will need institutional help to win.

Not in the primary, I think, which is good, because he won't get it. What comes after that? My guess would be, a very unsentimental evaluation whether his race is winnable or not with the infrastructure at hand. If he gets that institutional support, so much the better, and if he doesn't, if or when he wins on his own, he won't owe anyone any favors, and that's not a bad place to be, either.


[ Parent ]
take a step back (4.00 / 1)
I feel like there's a lot of talk about institutional support for Bodkin, case in point -

I met state senator Eric Schneiderman in Oswego, who inspired me and the entire progressive blogosphere with his transactional/transitional politics article in the Nation magazine. He told me that he spoke with my congressman, Steve Israel about Chris Bodkin and that he felt comfortable that Bodkin is dedicated to the progressive principles and agenda that our new state senate majority will forward come January 2009!

But are there public statements from Schneiderman or Israel or whoever to that effect?

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC


Good question Steve... (0.00 / 0)
Talk is cheap, especially when it is in private conversations. If Schneiderman spoke to Israel about Bodkin, then he should come out and endorse Bodkin.

After all, I think it is a HUGE stretch to assume that a guy who has been a staunch Republican for so long is "dedicated to the progressive principles and agenda" that we hope to push with our new State Senate majority.  


[ Parent ]
watching from nassau (4.00 / 4)
I'm not convinced Bodkin can be reliable when the democratic majority is thin. We don't need a majority with a waffler.  

[ Parent ]
Precisely (4.00 / 1)
What's stopping him? His goal is to get elected, not to defend Democratic values. All he wants is Trunzo's seat - nothing more, nothing less.  

[ Parent ]
I gotta say (4.00 / 2)
my guess would be that Eric isn't going o be all that pleased when he finds out that some anonymous dude on TAP is quoting him without him knowing about it.

[ Parent ]
Wondered about that-- (4.00 / 1)
Can other, more experienced bloggers fill us in about that?  In academia, you would ask explicitly to quote, in journalism you might assume that everything was on the record unless you were asked to keep it off the record (but you would identify yourself as a journalist).  I usually feel ok about things that are said in a public or large-group context getting quoted, but what's a good rule of thumb?

[ Parent ]
Here are my standards (0.00 / 0)
If I'm going to quote someone, I verify with them first if that's something I can put them on record about. Usually the answer is yes, but you never know. If it's said in a large group, I tend to believe that's fair game, but you should also check with the person who said it. If they are speaking at a podium, that's different. But if they are mingling about then I would check with them just to make sure.

I apply a lot of the same rules I learned in journalism to blogging as far as quoting someone goes. You have to remember, when people say things and they don't know a reporter or blogger is around, they might not want those things published. That's why you ask them. In most cases, they say yes.  


[ Parent ]
I don't know about experienced (0.00 / 0)
but my practice is to inquire whether I can quote someone before actually doing so. This especially when the subjects of private conversations may not be something the interlocutor wants publicly known.

[ Parent ]
Well, I have really enjoyed reading our community members responses! (4.00 / 1)
Some very thoughtful and deeply felt beliefs went into this and I thank you all for your reading and feedback. I truly do not remember robert ever asking me the question regarding Bodkins Democratic principles. so even phrasing the question as one that was asked before and now being asked again creates a false bravado as if I were somehow afraid or just unable to answer a straight forward question.  I felt I stated the principles and so I ask robert to provide his definition of Democratic principles so that I may better understand the point of the question? Bodkin will vote like a mainstream Democrat, not like a DINO.  In the case of the four time elected Town Councilman who defeated Trunzo's handpicked candidates in a 2005 primary and than was instrumental at lining up the east-end Republicans to support the Nolan Reform Team, it means a pickup of a senate seat and the end of Joe Bruno.  As Schneiderman relayed Israels conversation to me, Bodkin is committed to vote a Democratic Agenda.  In Newsday, Bodkin was specifically quoted as wanting to support the Democratic Health care proposals and was displeased with Republican opposition to health care for everyone. robert makes the repeated case that Bodkin would get elected and just be another Republican Senator.  That would make me and the powers that be who has as robert said very stupid indeed. One other robert point, each of us are represented by our own state senator, our local party choice does not force Bodkin down the throats of somebody living in western NY State.  But, I guess robert would rather I allow him to choose the 61st SD candidate and my 3rd SD candidate as well? Unless, robert, I was proposing nominating George Bush for the 3rd SD I really don't think you need feel concerned about any throat forced candidates. I welcome robert to invite Bodkin onto his blog radio program as soon as he announces and than have all his questions answered directly from the source.  That would be a far more refreshing alternative than all the speculation regarding the kind of Democratic Senator Bodkin will make.

StevinNYC states

From my familiarity with the past races in the district, I think Dahroug is a weak campaigner, and we don't need to nominate a more conservative candidate. But the pro-Bodkin argument seems to be that Dahroug is to liberal for the district

No, it is not liberal v conservative it is a proven effective winning campaigner who can win v a poor campaigner who will not. I also agree Steve that a different candidate is my preference as well but than you are talking to an Edwards guy who had to make a choice between Hillary and Obama.  It appears as though the other Democrats in the district are not interested in the run so I have to choose between the two who seem likely to run.

robert said

that Jimmy goes out and campaigns hard this time around in SD-3? I know when I talk to him on Friday I will be pushing him to do so, because I've heard this complaint from pro-Jimmy and anti-Jimmy people.

Good question to ask Jim and also to ask him why his 2006 campaign manager is not supporting him as a related topic.

robert also notes

I agree with you though Steve. Why lean on Bodkin if you're the institutional Dems? If Jimmy isn't their guy, find another Democrat (a true Democrat) to run. If we do out here in the rural sticks of NY, I'm sure they can manage to do so out on the Island.

There are no others presently but I did check with the Suffolk BOE who confirmed Bodkin as a registered Democrat.  I asked if that made him a real Democrat and the BOE clerk advised as real as any other!  Phil Nolan, Gene Parrington and John Edwards, the three REAL DEMOCRATS on the Islip Town Board just attended a fund raiser for Bodkin and seem ready to support him.  I do not understand your concerns over Bodkin when all of us who live here and all those Democrats elected here feel very comfortable supporting him?

Bouldin gives himself too much credit as the Internet poster ans response team I refer to and piffle sounds like a nice everyday word but as to the Massa and Mejias comparisons I can only say apples and oranges.  Massa actually ran a fantastic race in a much less friendly turf than the 3rd and came much closer on his first run than Jimmy did on his second.  Mejias actually has won office in heavily republican turf and like Bodkin is a proven vote getter and top tier candidate.  I also look forward to a primary.

SteveinNYC than questions my private conversation with Schneiderman and wants to know if a public statement will ensue.  I know that my honesty is not questioned here.  I will say that I do not know when public announcements will be made.  Marc Lapidus was present during the discussion, you may want to call his office and ask if they are endorsing a Bodkin run and if so how are they comfortable with his potential party loyalty and voting record.

Finally Nassaupolitics with robert question Bodkin waffle if the majority is thin.  I have observed Bodkin standing up against his three Republican Town Board members in support of Phil Nolan's reform agenda.  Two of the three were, like Bodkin, anti Trunzo Republicans so it was not just an easy standing up against the party leader and his allies, he stood up for the principle of good local governance in the face of partisan opposition from allies and adversaries.



I really have to ask (0.00 / 0)
SteveinNYC than questions my private conversation with Schneiderman and wants to know if a public statement will ensue.  I know that my honesty is not questioned here.  I will say that I do not know when public announcements will be made.  Marc Lapidus was present during the discussion, you may want to call his office and ask if they are endorsing a Bodkin run and if so how are they comfortable with his potential party loyalty and voting record.

Does it even occur to you that neither Schneidermann nor Lapidus, if they have any sense whatsoever, will ever speak to you again? Do you really imagine this is, if we assume for purposes of argument it's all true, something they want plastered all over the blogs by some alias?

I've had a number of conversations with Eric. I generally assume they're nobody's business.  


[ Parent ]
Bouldin you really need an anger management class/ (0.00 / 0)
first you refer to me as some anonimous dude on TAP, well I suppose that is an improvement over the time you called me a schmuck. than you make some childish sounding statement that people I spoke with who very bouldly and without any solicitation or expectation of confidence will not speak with me again. You obviously are unaware of me and all my work.  Everybody including Jimmy know who I am, there is no anonymous to my on screen name. My photo and my wifes have even been posted by me on these and other sites.  Do I refer to you as Bouldin, is that your first name? your last name? I only ask as you refer to my screen name as some unheard of anonymous poster and stated that you post under your real name so since I never heard of Bouldin as a first name perhaps I can assume it to be your last?  At any event I will be delighted to answer any civil toned questions you have.  I think ther may be a chance that I am old enough to be your father at least I gleam that from the maturity of your comments.  As it was my first meeting of both Eric and Marc, I can only say that they said what they said to me in a very busy public room with absolutely no concern on the part for who would over hear them.  Marc was particularly dismissive of Jimmy Dahrougs candidacy and made no bones about it.  I am sure if you know them and speak with them you can easily call them and ask, hey do you remember that guy and his wife who you met in Oswego who came up there from SD 3 to work for Aubertine?  I guarentee they will have no problem remembering that and than you can tell them of my relaying their take on the 3rd SD nomination and I am willing to wager they will be as straight forward with you as they were with me.  

[ Parent ]
Heh. (0.00 / 0)
I really hate to tell you this, but I see several people - robert, robinia, steve, myself - raising some substantial issues here, and your response tends to come in the form of rants. Not really a very persuasive case, but hey.

So again, this is a very discrete and limited point: you're making claims to speak for various public officials. Do you think that's kosher?


[ Parent ]
The question (0.00 / 0)
It was directed to the general TAP reading population. What Democratic principles does Bodkin possess? It wasn't directed to you, so if you want to make this personal, as you have, I would warn you that you shouldn't tread in such waters. I asked the question to everybody, not just you. No one, including you, has been able to provide an answer.

I think the question is pretty clear. If I ask you what Democratic principles you hold, I think you could answer that politics64 by saying that you're a progressive, you believe in (as examples) universal health care, combating global warming, etc. Again, those are just examples.

What can Bodkin say? He's only been a Democrat since the fall. I would be curious to see what he and/or his supporters have to say about this.

In the end politics64, you have to realize something. We have a great chance to take over the Senate in November. The Democratic Party in this state and broken down into the local committees have worked too hard to just give up their line in one race to a former Republican who will have been a Democrat for just about one year when the elections take place in 2008. We are all working hard in each corner of this state. And what are our friends preparing to do down in SD-3? They want to give their Democratic line to a guy who has been a Democrat for 5 months and a Republican for life. And what's worse, the state Dems are supporting this too.

This is just my view, but SD-3 can do whatever they want. If you guys want to elect a Republican on your line, go ahead. But I will be fighting to make sure that SD-56 and SD-61 take priority over that race. Because SD-56 and SD-61 have something you guys don't: A COMPLETELY Democratic field with people that hold strong Democratic beliefs.

Politics64, I respect your support for Bodkin. I don't agree with it, but each is entitled to their own opinion. I will be supporting Democrats in November. I hope you, the state Democrats and others in SD-3 would back that same notion as well.  



[ Parent ]
Look robert, I don't b;og on progressive sites to get threatened! (0.00 / 0)
It wasn't directed to you, so if you want to make this personal, as you have, I would warn you that you shouldn't tread in such waters

This is a veryu immature and silly thing to write to a grown man and you should really think more clearly before doing it in the future.

I think the question is pretty clear. If I ask you what Democratic principles you hold, I think you could answer that politics64 by saying that you're a progressive, you believe in (as examples) universal health care, combating global warming, etc. Again, those are just examples.

I believe I answered those for Bodkin but they will be much better answered by him as your guest when he announces.

Politics64, I respect your support for Bodkin. I don't agree with it, but each is entitled to their own opinion. I will be supporting Democrats in November. I hope you, the state Democrats and others in SD-3 would back that same notion as well.  

as I respect yours and we have both written alot on those seats as well as this one.  I also know that I will be continuing to work for Democrats including SD 3, I have never worked for anyone who was not.  I do need to ask you one last question regarding Dahroug.  Your defense on his behalf has been pretty strongly worded with me.  Do you and he have a past that should be disclosed in the interest of fair reporting ie did you both attend college together? Best friends or Fraternity Brothers? Some 2004 Deans Dozen type bonding? anything at all that has built in a prejudice for Jimm on your behalf or are you merely responding this way because of third party information you have about him from other sources?


[ Parent ]
Yes! (0.00 / 0)
I welcome robert to invite Bodkin onto his blog radio program as soon as he announces and than have all his questions answered directly from the source.  That would be a far more refreshing alternative than all the speculation regarding the kind of Democratic Senator Bodkin will make.

I think having Bodkin answer questions in a public forum (Robert's radio show or interview series, a blog post, etc.) is a great idea.

I know that my honesty is not questioned here.

Definitely; I take you at your word. I would find hearing Schneiderman talk convincing, possibly more so than hearing Bodkin, and would like to hear what he has to say.

I have observed Bodkin standing up against his three Republican Town Board members in support of Phil Nolan's reform agenda.

I feel like this is a story that's not been told. I remember hearing about this, but Trunzo is the only player I remember by name. I freely admit that I would benefit from knowing the story more fully.

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC


[ Parent ]
I would bring Bodkin on my show... (4.00 / 1)
or interview him via e-mail or by phone. Actually, I had him on the list of my next targets when I'm done with this first round of interviews. I think since Jimmy will be on my show Friday, we could go with Bodkin on my show in the near future as well. Just let me complete these interviews over the next few days and I'll focus on others.


[ Parent ]
actually (4.00 / 1)
i am just about to post an invitation to both of them to make their case here on the front page.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

[ Parent ]
I don't mean to split hairs but (0.00 / 0)
Bodkin is a Dem because the Reps tried to dump him for Phil Boyle over the term limits issue.
I know his story since then but as an outside observer I just want to make sure the Democrats have a Democratic candidate with deep Democratic values. I don't want to end up with a back-sliding party switcher.
That being said, it is up to the Dems in the district to make their choice. The party should hold a primary and not take sides.  

Neither do I want a back sliding party switcher. (0.00 / 0)
I do not feel Bodkin will be one or I would not support him over any other Democratic candidate.  In Oyster Bay Town you have been thrice bitten by a Town Coucilman, Town Clerk and Tax Receiver who were all elected as Democrats at the end of the 90's and all switched to Republicans.  They all sounded like they never believed in the Democratic Party to begin with.  We have also seen some really good people swithch to our side and become excellent Democratic officials.  I do not want to close the door on somebody only based on the fact that they are a party switcher!

[ Parent ]
It works both ways... (4.00 / 1)
There are people who call themselves Democrats that belong on the Republican side.

My problem (and it's more of a question) is why now? Bodkin switches and months later, he's looking into running for a seat he wanted to run for before on the Republican side. It would be one thing if he switched four or five years ago and proved himself. But the fact remains that he switched only a few months ago and now wants to run on our platform.

We have a Democratic legislator here in Orleans County who gave $200 to John McCain. He's the only Democrat we have in county government and he pulls something like this. I e-mailed him and he told me not to be "overly partisan." Scary thought...

Anyway, look at Jon Powers. He was a registered Republican for six or seven years, then switched for good reason: He came back from Iraq and was disenchanted with the Republican Party. He switched to a Democrat and now is a beloved candidate of the netroots.

But Bodkin is doing the same thing Jack Davis did. Davis switched sides and then ran for Congress. You might think it's not suspicious, but it is. Why switch now? And why run now? He's not getting any younger, so maybe he saw Trunzo not retiring as his time to switch parties and try to run as a Democrat? It's possible.

In all fairness, if Bodkin switched years ago, I think people would be more open to this. In fact, I know they would. But it's hard to justify this move. The timing of it just doesn't fit. If he truly believed in the Democratic Party, why does he switch and then decide to run for Senate months later? Why not switch five years ago? Ten years ago? And beyond?  


[ Parent ]
The retiring Trunzo meme came right out of Dahrougs campaign talking points (4.00 / 1)
and Dahroug took those talking points from none other than Caeser Trunzo who upon hearing rumors that Bodkin wanted to challenge him this November came out in Newsday by saying Bodkin always wanted my senate seat and I guess he just couldn't wait for me to retire.  Trunzo framed that argument so as to portray what will be a very serious challenger as a political opportunist. and what does Dahroug do?  He violates the first commandment of the progressive movement, DO NOT USE REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS AGAINST YOUR DEMOCRATIC OPPONENT.  

[ Parent ]
Is it false though? (4.00 / 1)
It's one thing to use a Republican talking point, but it's another to deal in facts and the truth. Can Bodkin deny that he always wanted this seat and he was waiting for Trunzo to retire?

[ Parent ]
By the way Politics64... (0.00 / 0)
Why do you say now that Bodkin will uphold progressive principles after arguing with me before that a progressive couldn't get elected in SD-3? You made your case against Jimmy Dahroug on these grounds, even invoking guys like Jim Webb and Bob Casey.

If Bodkin is a progressive, or at least upholds progressive values as you suggest, won't he lose? After all, I believe you implied this before that we needed a more moderate to conservative Democrat in SD-3 and that's why Jimmy wasn't an option.  


robert, Webb and Casey have also cast votes for many progressive issues (0.00 / 0)
they voted for all six for 06 legislation that passed in the first couple of months that their new majorities took office.  Are they as progressive as Dennis Kucinich? No way! Is Bodkin committed to mainstream Democratic positions, absolutely, is he going to be as progressive as Dennis Kucinich, no way!  Would Jimmy be alot closer to a Kucinich progressive than Bodkin? Yes! Could Kucinich win SD 3? No way! and neither can Jimmy.  But Bodkin should be and I feel is progressive enough to merrit our support. We can nominate  a Kucinich style progressive and see Caeser remain a senator and Bruno a majority leader or we can nominate Boskin who will be a very serviceable supporter of a Malcolm Smith lead agenda and have Malcolm Smith be the new majority leader! For me the choice is just this clear.  

[ Parent ]
I know this... (0.00 / 0)
I didn't say they didn't. But there are Democratic senators and members of the House who voted with the other side on key issues. Just look at the FISA fight. That's the best example. Look at the Iraq War. Even better example.

But you should know that my problem with your theory is that you believe if the district is Republican, then you have to be more like the Republicans to win. Meaning, more moderate or conservative. This principle applies to all districts - especially here in upstate NY.

My problem with that thinking is that if you have a poor Republican incumbent who has disappointed his or her district and people want change, they are going to vote for change. They aren't going to vote for someone with the same views. They want to see someone different. This can work in the reverse as well.

And by the way, SD-3 isn't THAT Republican. SD-48 was more Republican. My district, SD-62, is more Republican (slightly). So I don't think you can give up on a guy like Jimmy Dahroug. Does he have flaws? Sure. But so does Bodkin and any candidate that runs for office. Dahroug's advantage is that he has ran for this seat before. He has been praised and criticized. I think if we all unite around him and express our expectations for goals, he'd follow through on that. I don't think we have that same ability with Bodkin.  


[ Parent ]
robert, I bet we can have even greater influence with Bodkin than with Jimmy (0.00 / 0)
I also believe in running the blueist candidates we can everywhere we can.  A perfect example is Conners Brooklyn state senate seat.  There we have a real Al Wynn DINO in a district where the winner of the Democratic primary is tantamount to election.  We narrowly missed taking him down in 06.  We have a much more progressive alternative from Chuck Schummers office challenging him this year.  But Robert, I know my distict and Jimmy will not transformationally sell the message.  We unfortunately have nobody else stepping up who can or will so I fall back on the transactional politics and take the compromise and win the seat and the senate!

[ Parent ]
You never know... (0.00 / 0)
You keep saying Jimmy won't sell, but what's to say he won't change? I have the same thought about Jack Davis. Davis has too much of an ego to change. I know I'm injecting NY-26 a lot, but there's some parallels here.

Jimmy seems to be the type of guy that learns from his mistakes. If he works hard from now until September, I think he can change your mind (and others). He can be the candidate that people want him to be and the candidate he should be.

You are fortunate to you have a repeat candidate like Jimmy. He is accessible and should listen to people. Jack Davis won't do that. If he ends up as our candidate, we'll never see him. We don't see Tom Reynolds as it is, unless it involves a photo op. Every candidate has to work for it - including Bodkin. Will he be accessible and will he walk the district? Those are big questions for him too. If he wants this seat, he has to earn it - or at least, I hope that's the approach. I would hate to see Jimmy get phased out for another guy who does the same things that Jimmy was criticized for doing.  


[ Parent ]
Listen Politics64... (0.00 / 0)
A lot of people have tolerated your views here. A LOT. I don't think you can lump me in with the others who you declared Jimmy Dahroug supporters. I like Jimmy. I've talked to him on a few occasions, but that doesn't mean I'm a supporter or a lackey. I'm defending my own views here, not Jimmy's.

Don't tell me what I should think about writing in the future. I left a blog in the past (a very libertarian blog) because they would trash me for my progressive viewpoints. And by trash, I mean outright personal attacks. This isn't the first time you have called someone out personally on this blog. You've done it before. I believe it was your wife you came on here yesterday and labeled me as "over sensitive." And then you tonight called me out on a question you clearly did not comprehend or interpret correctly. So I warned you not to tread down that path. Not as a threat, but in the name of keeping things clean and free of personal targeting.

I understand you have a personal interest in this race, but it's getting overblown with bias. I'm not a full blown supporter of Jimmy. I like the fact he is a progressive, because I'm a progressive. My personal beliefs are that I will never support a Republican who changes sides just to run on our party line. I did it once (Jack Davis) and will never do it again.

Do you and he have a past that should be disclosed in the interest of fair reporting ie did you both attend college together? Best friends or Fraternity Brothers? Some 2004 Deans Dozen type bonding? anything at all that has built in a prejudice for Jimm on your behalf or are you merely responding this way because of third party information you have about him from other sources?

First off, I'll tell you what I told fellow bloggers. If you have a problem with me, click on my username and there is my e-mail address. If you want to target me, like you have repeatedly, let's take care of it in private. But since this is out there for all to see, I will answer your questions.

The first time I talked to Jimmy was when I e-mailed him about a week ago to appear on my radio show. I've known Jimmy for about seven days. We didn't go to the same college (I'm in college at SUNY Fredonia right now) and I wasn't his frat brother or anything. I've talked to him a few times since then about the race and the radio show via e-mail. It's nothing out of the ordinary for me. I've spoken with Michele Iannello a few times via e-mail as well, and I have spoken with other Senate candidates via e-mail or phone as well.

Again, I must repeat that I respect your views. But just because my views don't gel with yours, don't try to assume that because I'm anti-Bodkin that somehow that makes me a Dahroug operative. You've done this with others as well. Quit grasping at straws. We can have a civil debate here and I ask that you stick to issues, not individuals. You called out myself, Bouldin, Steve and others. That's not the right approach to take, especially since you'll probably be working with us on future races and ask for our help just like we will approach you and do the same.


In the interest of clarification. My wife and I hand off our wireless laptop (0.00 / 0)
while we watch TV in the den. I went onto the Albany site forgetting to log her off and me on.  After I posted I realized the post was coming up as her screen name so please do not hold anything I wrote against Janet, that was me posting not her and I apologize for the mistake.

I truly believe you are reading personal attacks where none were made.  I also feel that your choice or words "tolerated here by ALOT of people" is very unfortunate.  Your targeting comments etc are also off the mark.  Your terms odf calling out is nonsense.  I can't ask you a follow up question or if you have an ulterior motive without you feeling attacked? Bouldin used insulting language directly at me and I did abso;utely nothing but tell a diary opinion that he did not care for! I stick totally to issues and never ever get personal.  Now lets stop the nonsense here and now! I asked if you were a Dahroug supporter, a fair enough question, you could nicely answer no as you have in somewhat stronger language.  I accept your answer. BTW I never called out Steve nor do I call out anyone.  Called out implies that somebody has challenged somebody else to a fight! I will if attacked ask people to think carefully before doing so again as I trust you will as well.

I am beginning to understand how we progressives often snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, we are above all else individualists ad not followers and thus often end up forming circular firing squads!


[ Parent ]
Understood... (0.00 / 0)
Your mistake is acknowledged and I accept the apology. The over sensitive remark crossed the line. That might not be an attack to you, but it's still labeling someone something they are not. If I am guilty of anything, it's being "overly concerned" with the direction of our Democratic Party, locally, at the state level and nationally.

Calling out someone doesn't mean that you call them out to a fight. You went down a list of names, mine included. I don't care if you want to debate issues, but when you start speculating (incorrectly I might add) about my alleged connections to Dahroug, you cross a line. That's getting personal, whether you like it or not.

You can ask a follow up question, but you also responded to my question by saying this:

I truly do not remember robert ever asking me the question regarding Bodkins Democratic principles. so even phrasing the question as one that was asked before and now being asked again creates a false bravado as if I were somehow afraid or just unable to answer a straight forward question.

You misinterpreted the question. It was very clear and I didn't even name names. I asked what Democratic principles Bodkin had. I asked everyone, in this open forum. No one provided an answer, including but not limited to you. So you imply that somehow, I was trying to slight you and make you seem afraid to answer the question. That was (obviously) not the case.

By the way, progressives are the ones that have been getting burned, not only by Republicans, but by members of their own Democratic Party. I think that is worth noting. We have been fighting an uphill battle for years. We're not at the top yet, but we're getting closer.  


[ Parent ]
Its late my friend and you need to rest that back (0.00 / 0)
I hope they gave you something for the pain tat will allow you to sleep better tonight.

[ Parent ]
Prednisone and Thermacare patches... (0.00 / 0)
A pretty good pain killer and something you can buy at your local drug store. It's a muscle pull, so I'm SOL. I'll have to live with the pain until the prednisone kicks in. That's why I haven't posted actual stories over the last two days. This has really knocked me down and made me read more than write.  

[ Parent ]
prednisone actually promotes healing of damaged tissue! (0.00 / 0)
The heat patches will help the muscle as well.  My dad had lower lumbar disc damage.  I remember running him to the hospital and they had him in traction with an IV drip! We can't be too careful whenever we lift or work!

[ Parent ]
I wouldn't doubt... (4.00 / 1)
If it's more serious than a muscle pull. But I'll rest for the next few days and see where I stand. My dad actually herniated a disc in his back. Opted not to have the surgery, but he was down and out for awhile. My girlfriend's uncle has the same trouble. He just turned 50 and he is practically out of work now.

I worked for Home Depot and they taught us how to properly lift things to protect against back injuries. I still use those lessons today. I don't know how I did this. I can't even come up with a list of possibilities. It was a fluke, to say the least.  


[ Parent ]
hang in there, mate. (0.00 / 0)
we need ya.

hope you feel better soon, friend.

TODAY is day one. It always is.


[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.00 / 1)
It's getting better... slowly. This weekend I'll have some good stuff for you all, including a big event in Niagara County.  

[ Parent ]
In addition... (0.00 / 0)
Let me clarify my position. I'm not a believer in "three times  a charm" candidates. I believe if you lose the first time, you should be granted a rematch. It works for boxing, it should work for politics.

I make exceptions to that rule, however. Jimmy Dahroug could be an exception. One of the criticisms of Jimmy is that he didn't campaign enough which is, oddly enough, the same criticism given to another candidate who is seeking the same seat for a third time: Jack Davis. Progressives should be willing to go work and pound the pavement. June O'Neill said in a trip to Orleans County that candidates should be burning holes in the soles of their shoes. I hope Jimmy takes this advice. It will only help him.

I appreciate your (politics64) position on Republicans who switch parties. I do not dispute the fact that Republicans can switch sides and become full fledged Democrats and quite possibly, progressives. But, I have a problem with Republicans who switch parties and then magically want to run for office only a short time after. It's not like I haven't seen this before. I've seen Republicans who switch parties and then Republicans who seek to get the Democratic line. You should have to earn your stripes first. I think we all would have a different view of this situation if Bodkin had switched parties long ago - but I only speak for myself.

That is where I stand. Progressives can win everywhere, but they also have to be given a fair shake. Progressives in NY have a lot of key issues under their belts which appeal to lower and middle class citizens. We can appeal to Republicans in our general elections and we can win our own party of course. But we need to believe in that. We can't look at everything through the prism that if it's Republican, we have to be more Republican. We have to be different. We have to be for the people. Lord knows the GOP isn't.  


AMEN to that robert! (0.00 / 0)
Let me ask you this. Have most of the Rep. Party switchers you have seen first hand and wanting to run immediately been active office holders when they switched?

I ask this because there is in my mind a definite opportunistic aspect to a republican not presently holding an office or maybe a former office holder who lost a primary or general election switching and wanting to run right away than a Republican who actually holds an elective office with nearly three years left on the term who switches and than wants to run.  Do you see a difference in the two?


[ Parent ]
Some have been (0.00 / 0)
We had a guy here who was a Town Supervisor that lost in the Republican primary. He was then given the Democratic endorsement while still a registered Republican. That upset a lot of Democrats. I believe someone mentioned it before: We are not for sale.

He ended up losing on the Democratic line but now he is considering (still, I think) the possibility of becoming a Democrat.

Is there a difference with what you propose? Yes. But the whole point is that either way, if you switch, you better be willing to show why you switched and what Democratic principles you believe in. It's obvious Jack Davis believes in very few, but he's willing to throw his money around. This town supervisor I mentioned stood up for me at a GOP event when Republicans were smearing me. He really won over people with that stand.

This does not change the fact that in the fall of 2007, Bodkin switched to the Democratic Party and now, is looking at SD-3. He should fall in line and work his way up. Just like he worked his way up through the GOP.  


[ Parent ]
Not to flog a dead horse (0.00 / 0)
But I think the electability argument against Dahroug is unsound- as Azi points out in a great article today:

It may be because the party is afraid Dahroug can't win. In 2004, Trunzo easily defeated him. But in 2006, Dahroug won more Democratic votes than Truzno won Republican votes, and the seat stayed in G.O.P. hands because of votes on the Independence and Conservative Party lines.

http://www.observer.com/2008/d...

With actual engagement by the state party, Dahroug can def win this race


The problem with that point Roatti is this.... (0.00 / 0)
and believe me, I thought of this myself along time ago, that if the additional lines could be pealed away Trunzo would be dead man walking against just about any challenger.  The problem is that the Local Conservative Party loves him and has supported him for decades.  He paid them back with a Town Clerk seat in Islip by having the Republicans cross endorse the Conservative nominee.  Then we have the state IP Chair who lives here in Suffolk.  We all saw from the Aubertine experience that at-least on a state senate level he is totally married to Bruno and will not peel off that line either.  

More to my point, The WFP does not want Dahroug and their working partners at the DSCC do not either so that line will not be added to Jimmy.  My re-telling of my open public conversations with Sen. Schneiderman and Marc Lapidus has been questioned by some here at the initiation of one of Dahrougs most ardent supporters.  It is telling that he chose to question the privacy nature of the conversation rather than the facts of the actual exchange.  He does so because the Schneiderman/Lapidus rejection of Dahroug candidacy is a fatal nail in the coffin of that candidacy.  We all have seen the DSCC recruitment's to date and as a community have supported them all.  The one sentiment of rejection is the SD 3 recruitment efforts.  I make the point that no Democratic Party candidate can win this district without the support and blessing of the DSCC with their financial and field support and without the cross endorsement and field support of the WFP.  Dahroug will have neither and I challenger any of his supporters to demonstrate that he does.  I offered the poster to call Lapidus and Schneiderman who he stated he has spoken with many times and ask them their positions on a Dahroug candidacy.  He has not gone that route and I suspect it is because team Dahroug has already received that answer!  They are just not candid enough to want to share that answer with the rest of us.  That is unfortunate but the very fact that this entire Bodkin discussion has taken place is because the DSCC under the direction of my discussed sources have been actively recruiting him.  The real story that needs to be heard is Why?  Why is it that the same folks who are elected Darrel Aubertine, support Don Barber and many others of our great 2008 candidate recruitment, not promoting Dahroug.  I conclude by saying that I remain consistent with all my support of the various candidates who we have all been backing to date and with our DSCC and WFP reform Albany partners.  As to the inconsistency of those supporting Dahroug, they will need to answer that for themselves!


[ Parent ]
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