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A cost effective do-over fix for Michigan and Florida: But they must act fast!

by: politics64

Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 14:07:15 PM EST


We are all progressive bloggers on this site and as such that makes us savvy and intelligent followers of our political process.  That is why we need not stretch our brains too thin to get them wrapped around hidden agenda the core intent of Republican Florida Gov. Crist interference into the Democratic Presidential Nominating process.  What is disturbing is the lack of savvy and intelligent understanding of Democratic Michigan Governor Granholm's participation in Crist's scheme.  On the surface their jointly declared call for a do-over primary sounds only fair.  The shoe drops however when Crist clarifies that his state will not pay for the new primary!
politics64 :: A cost effective do-over fix for Michigan and Florida: But they must act fast!
It begs the question of, Well Governor, if not you than who should pay? The Democrats of course! But is that not very costly? About eighteen million for Florida and twelve million for Michigan!

It is no secret that the collective donations to the DNC, DSCC and DCCC have eclipsed their Republican counterparts by several factors! How interesting that the Republican Florida Governor has been so kind and concerned over the rights of his states millions of Democratic voters to have their voices heard at the August DNC Convention in Denver, CO. What better way to drain off thirty million dollars of joint Democratic campaign committee cash advantage than to publicly humiliate them into having to spend it on a do-over or risk civil war within their primary candidate supporters ranks or alienation of Michigan and Florida general election voters. I can hear those pro McCain Michigan/Florida TV spots now! "The Democratic Party is so opposed to the best interests of our state that they would not allow our votes to count at their Presidential Convention, not even after our Governor invited them to reschedule another primary! Only one party and one candidate really values you! McCain for President 2008!

Now of course these two Governors and their legislatures scheduled their initial primaries, against both DNC and RNC rules.  Both national committees informed them that if they proceed there would be consequences.  The Republicans decided they will only seat half of the states delegates, the Democrats decided that none would be seated.  Then there is also the truth that both states voters knew in advance their votes would not count but showed up in huge numbers regardless. How do we punish those states voters for the arrogance/stupidity of their state governments?

The answer is, we don't but how can we seat them in the fairest and most cost effective manner?  To use formulas like making them all uncommitted delegates, proportioning them by the initial primary results, by allocating them to reflect the actual nationwide primary vote or earned delegate percentages or even turning the two states into less expensive caucuses all have patently unfair results to both Clinton and Obama.  No, the only fair thing to do is a do-over primary.  But, who will pay for it?  The national parties and the taxpayers of the two states should not pay an extra penny!  So how do we get this done at no extra cost?  By having both states correct their initial error of jumping ahead by moving back their scheduled August state and local primaries to June 10. This date is the drop dead deadline to end the primary season.  It will only shorten their state primary by two months and by combining both events in one it will result in no additional expense to the taxpayers of those states who should not shoulder an additional financial burden to correct their state officials callous decision to ignore the rules.

Poll
Democratic Governor Jennifer Granholm's decision to join Governor Crist's Republican scheme to drain the Democratic Committees of their resources indicates
That Granholm is a Republican
That Granholm is very stupid
That Granholm is a Republican and stupid
That there are no other conclusions to come to

Results

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My suggestion (and I know it's been mentioned elsewhere) (0.00 / 0)
give em each 50% of the delegates from both states.  That way, each state gets delegates seated, and it doesn't screw either candidate over, and it doesn't cost the party millions of dollars.  It's not like the results would be significantly different than that outcome anyway.

How to select the delegates, you ask?  Draw names out of a friggin hat, I don't care.  This is the best, and cheapest solution the the debacle that Michigan and Florida created.


Giving em each half would not fly with both sides. (0.00 / 0)
Hillary would lose bigtime on that deal as she got 50% to Obama 33% and Edwards 16% and if we argue , ya, but it was uncontested, she can say, so I still won among 1.7 million voters playing on the same level field of none of us campaigning there.  The only solution is a do-over.  Primary's they were and primaries they should be but how to do so at the right price is the answer we need to get to. BTW, Hillary could well win FL 56% to 44% and come away with a pretty significant delegate advantage, MI the same not that unlike Ohio.

[ Parent ]
My "mommy" and "daddy" taught me... (4.00 / 1)
to play by the rules. If the rules are set before the game, don't change them halfway through. The Clinton camp has pushed this which seems convenient for them, considering they won both states. If you're going to count them though, just count them as it is. It's not going to make a big difference anyway. Even with MI and FL counted, nothing is decided - still.

I remember writing somewhere (DKos maybe?) that Michigan and Florida should have been allowed to hold their primaries. I thought it was ridiculous that they weren't allowed to, considering everyone knew that Iowa was willing to move up into December if they had to.

That being said, I don't blame the states for saying that they don't want to pay for it. This isn't THEIR fault to begin with. This was the DNC's choosing. I have a lot of respect for Howard Dean, but the DNC made a big mistake here.  


I am sure Hillary would love yur proposal robert! (0.00 / 0)
She would have a gain of over a hundred delegates than.  But the Obama team will never go for it. We need a solution that they can all live with. The re-do seems to be the only choice that they are all willing to swallow.  

[ Parent ]
Wait a minute (0.00 / 0)
We have no way of knowing how those primaries would have went if they had been contested.  A recent poll of Michigan shows that Obama is tied 41 -41.  Ohio and Michigan are similar except that the teamsters have endorsed Obama and have more sway in Michigan as well as there is a much larger minority vote, so you can't claim the orginal win meant anything (especially since many Dems voted in the Republican primary because both campaigns, including Clinton's, said it wouldn't count) or that Michigan will follow Ohio.  Remember, Wisconson has similar demographics too with a smaller minority vote.  How did that go for Clinton?

[ Parent ]
I am not claiming the original contest. (0.00 / 0)
We all need to look and the destructive dialogue between the campaigns to know that the only solution to prevent civil war is to run these over. All other proposals are opposed totally by one side or the other side or both sides.

robert wrote that the two states should not have to pay and lays blame for this at the DNC feet.  I disagree, Howard Dean informed those two Governors and their legislators not to do this in the proposal phase.  He further informed them of the consequences if they did and they just blew him and the DNC off! I believe Charlie Crist had a troublemaking anti Democratic agenda here all along.


[ Parent ]
Who broke the rules (0.00 / 0)
I don't know who did it, but someone in each state was responsible for breaking the DNC rules.  They were silly, rules, of course, but they were still broken.

The way I see it, the DNC is 50% wrong for making stupid rules, and the states' decision-makers were 49% wrong for breaking them.  They should both split the bill half and half and hold either new primaries or caucuses (I'd prefer caucuses beacuse they are cheaper and require more action from voters)

Oh...that 1%...that's Hillary for wanting to break the rules that the states broke because they were broken since her campaign is breaking down :-)


Lets not rewrite history (4.00 / 1)
The DNC didn't write these rules.  The DNC and RNC agreed to a calendar together.  The RNC took the smarter tactic by only taking away half the delegate total and allowing the states to still matter, but the calendar itself wasn't made by the DNC alone.  

The two parties did this for a reason.  Frontloaded primaries are bad for democracy.  They give all the power to the media and the early donors, not letting the average voter have any real choice.  Its bad enough as is now.  

This is the first real drawn out primary contest in a generation.  Why only one in all this time?  Because of frontloading that gives early front-runners amazing strength.

Also, lets also remember that Michigan has historically been a caucus state, not a primary state.  The idea that "they were primaries and should remain primaries" is a very limited view of history.

A revote for Michigan and Florida is needed.  The idea that they should just be given to Clinton is unfair.  Leaving them out is also wrong.

Crist should pay for a revote because he'll make the money back easily for the state in the amount the campaigns will spend between ads, people on the ground, and events.  Great tourism boost in an offseason.  Think about how great New Hampshire makes out every four years.


[ Parent ]
you are making my every point in the post except the most significant. (0.00 / 0)
you are correct that you cant just let the initial results stand.  You are correct that the two national parties agreed on the calendar. You are coreect that FL should pay but than the same logic says that MI should as well, the commercials etc etc will be thick and heavy there as well. Short view of history is not the point. MI was a primary for 2008 and a primary it must stay, anything else changes the entire 2008 campaign from the way it was played out originally. The main point none of the commentors arenoting is the solution of moving up the states primary dates so as to create no additional cost to the states!

[ Parent ]
absolutely agree with soundpolitic! (4.00 / 1)
The two states broke to DNC rules and had plenty of advanced warning not to do so!

[ Parent ]
What would the cost of a mail-in-vote be? (0.00 / 0)
Post a ballot on the BoE website that people can print out and send in, postage paid bulk rate.  Count everything by hand.  How would that compare, when adding up cost of postage and cost of counting, compared to cost of paying election inspectors, machine setup, etc?

What about a secure online vote?  would it even be feasible to set up something and have it tested in time?


I heard alot less than the primary! (0.00 / 0)
It may be a way to go!

[ Parent ]
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