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Pigs In Albany

by: phillip anderson

Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:15:40 AM EDT


This is just disgusting.

Sex and politics: NY's state Capitol can seem like spring break

Up until just a few years ago, lawmakers would go "window shopping" for interns at the start of every legislative session. In a practice that went on for decades, the interns would be corraled in a Capitol newsstand, and legislators would take their pick.

The hanky-panky even has its own lexicon: There's the "Bear Mountain Compact," which says that what goes on north of the state park just outside New York City stays there. Lobbyists, staffers and reporters who seek to enhance their influence by bedding powerful lawmakers are known as "big game hunters." And the men who sleep with the women lawmakers are "boy toys."

"Unfortunately, many of the people who seek public office are flawed people to begin with and the environment in Albany just tends to bring that out," said Paul Clyne, former district attorney in Albany.

Clyne issued a scathing report in 2004 on the internship program at the Capitol, famously saying he would never let his daughter become an intern. The report led to reforms in the program, including an end to fraternization between lawmakers and interns outside the office.

"There was a lot of hitting on us and boundaries being crossed," said one young woman lobbyist who was part of that scene for years.

"Window shopping" for interns? As late as 2004? Are you kidding me? I just don't know what to say. Fortunately, digby is still capable of outrage:

I am probably more libertarian on matters of private sexual behavior than a lot of you. In fact, I know I am since I didn't find Spitzer's actions to be a matter of public interest except to the extent he had actually prosecuted others for the crimes he had committed and had run on a platform of moral rectitude.

However, this truly is beyond the pale and should be a matter for investigation. If politicians who corralled a bunch of women into a newsstand to be chosen for jobs in legislators' offices based on their sexual attractiveness to the disgusting pigs they were going to work for are still in office today, they should be exposed. That's not consensual behavior, that's sex discrimination. This practice apparently went on until 2004, and there's no excuse for it.

...

But this article indicates that lobbyists are selling their bodies for political consideration and that until very recently lawmakers are using the intern pool (at least until recently) as their own private whorehouse. It's institutional, not personal. That's called corruption and discrimination and it's not the same thing as consensual sex between two adults. This is more like some kind of sexual plantation.

Surprisingly, the private sector is way ahead on this stuff. Going all the way back to the 90's, the business world began to learn that sexual harrassment and discrimination was lethal. It's hard to believe that the politicians who wrote the fucking laws took until 2004 to figure out that treating interns like Amsterdam whores was probably not a good way to go, but apparently they did.

Everybody knows that politics is a dirty business, but this is ridiculous.

Given the revelation that some lobbyists are literally selling their bodies in Albany for political considerations, I guess we should look at Governor Paterson's "only the lobbyists" quip in a new way. I also don't care to ever hear a legislator in Albany spew faux moral outrage over, well, over just about anything. Ever. Physician, heal thyself.

Given the fact that the turnover rate for lawmakers in Albany is so scandalously low, most of the folks who paraded interns, many of them just teenagers, around as they picked them as if they were cattle at auction are still there in the Capitol. They should be ashamed of themselves.

These men are pigs and might actually be criminals. They treated the daughters of those who employ them like whores in a Thai go-go bar. They should be investigated and prosecuted with the laws they themselves wrote.

Absolutely disgusting.  

phillip anderson :: Pigs In Albany
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Pigs In Albany | 26 comments
Unbelievable. (4.00 / 2)
But this is what happens when you have unaccountable legislators who don't have to worry about getting reelected.  

ummm... (4.00 / 2)
Not sure that dwelling on the Albany culture's truly horrible aspects is the way to go.  It is, of course, all entirely true.  Has been since anybody can remember.  Heck, when the space the LOB and Agency buildings now occupies used to be small shops, and my Grandfather used to have a fruit stand, he was considered charitable because he did not turn away as customers the whores who lived in the neighborhood a block or two from the Capitol.

What is more important, I think, is what is displaced.  We really need to focus time, attention, and labor (maybe even INTERNS' labor) on governing.  Past due.  Yeah, don't send your daughters to Albany unless they are very, very strong.  But, don't let the tawdriness fool you into thinking we can get by without State government.  We haven't been even getting by.


not good enough (4.00 / 4)

The issue here is deeper... how can this be permitted to happen in the state where women's rights in this country was born?  This is not acceptable for New York.

I am not really interested in the moral outrage aspect of it, but you just have to wonder what women like Liz Krueger have to say about this.  Whatever the male legislators or staffers are doing or confessing to for whatever reason, how can our female legislators in Albany hold their heads up after reading this story?  (did they even have to read it?  I'm sure they knew - as did Michael Gormley, no doubt.  Oh yes, I'm sure he's shocked, simply shocked.  Yes, we can drag the Albany press into this too because they seem to be part of the boy's club.)

HOWEVER... we don't need a man-bashing session or morals police in Albany; what we need is for the women of this state to get a complete re-education on who they are and where they are from.   Something has gone terribly wrong.  We don't need a President Hillary Clinton to accomplish this re-education either.


[ Parent ]
Do, what? (4.00 / 1)
OK.  I have a female legislator.  She is not blind (neither am I) so is seeing stuff in Albany.  She worked there before she ran for office.  She should (have)--
a. not run for office, too hypocritical
b. run and won, made a public stink about members' disrespect for women
c. run and won, championed and supported legislation to help women

She did c, I'm ok w/that-- picking a or b would mean c could not happen under current rules.

As far as "what we need is for the women of this state to get a complete re-education on who they are...." .... that happened yet again for me when I realized that I could never have gotten Spitzer's attention w/just my great GPA or 740 on the analytical GREs, but, had I been 95 lbs. and an "almost D cup," that might have worked.  Sad. But true.


[ Parent ]
article made it sound (0.00 / 0)
like it wasn't just the men misbehaving:

---------------------
And the men who sleep with the women lawmakers are "boy toys."
---------------------

Not that that phrase is unique to Albany, in any case.

I'm not looking for the morals police, but, oh, I don't know, a sense of responsibility in Albany?


[ Parent ]
Not just lawmakers (4.00 / 1)
There aren't all that many women lawmakers.  I think that there are women in power positions in these situations some (although, not anywhere near so much or so obvious as the guys, who are pretty obvious), but, they are more in the lobbyist/counsel ranks.

I'm getting the feeling that some of our TAP community may not be visiting in person as much as they should if they want to understand things...

But, really, I think Ada Smith is more the model for female lawmaker bad morals: scream, berate and throw things at your female staff.  Not that I think most women lawmakers do that, either.  But the same people get screwed, just, differently. I would not want to guess whether most male lawmakers are "drinking at that fountain," but, there are sure enough of the denizens of the LOB around to make it a minor industrial sector in the Albany area-- and, as everywhere, it is older powerful men and young powerless women, 95% of the time.  We've got centuries of experience on this one, actually.


[ Parent ]
Sounds reasonable to me (0.00 / 0)
(And I've only been in the Capitol and LOB once.)

[ Parent ]
really (0.00 / 0)
I was thinking this morning, who is really the most respected and powerful female legislator in Albany?  At least, someone I've heard strongly associated with major issues of the day?  The only name that came to MY mind was Liz Krueger.  That is just sad  (because she's still a member of the minority party in her house)   Am I forgetting someone?

Amazing what having Hillary around for eight years has covered up...


[ Parent ]
As I Said (4.00 / 3)
in a comment over at Digby's site a little bit before you put the story up here,
Maybe I'm just extra cynical because New York is my home state, but anybody who's paid even the slightest attention to the NYS legislature over the past few decades knows that its reputation as being the most dysfunctional in the nation is not due solely to what goes on inside the State Capitol. The trading of favors -- financial or sexual -- has been a longstanding tradition about which most New Yorkers are quite happy to remain utterly ignorant, except when it becomes unavoidable.
Honestly, I remember hearing about this sort of stuff going on 25 years ago, and it's not like I had all sorts of connections in Albany.

It's pretty much the Iron Triangle of politics:  Money--Sex--Power.  In New York State, the money is often bigger, and, for most legislators, the power vastly less than elsewhere, but the three still remain a constant presence.  We would be naïve to pretend otherwise, and cleaning up this, too, is a vital element of the reform we seek because it is necessary for effective and open government.


yeah (4.00 / 1)
except when it becomes unavoidable

Between Spitzer and Paterson's confessions this has been quite the disruption.

I say, TALLY HO and let loose the dogs.  

I don't think you have to let loose the dogs on the Governor himself at this point.   In fact, it would be very uncomfortable for the most powerful pigs in Albany if Gov. Paterson remained fairly popular and effective.   There are bigger oinks in this pen, methinks.

If you can't bring yourself to give three cheers for Gov. Paterson, at least give him two.

heh heh.


[ Parent ]
lady politicians too? (0.00 / 0)
would we be investigating just the men? do the women representatives have cabana boy interns?

what if the representative is unmarried? what is the moral fortitude that would be applied to these individuals if they choose to share themselves?(as much as they desire)

is the suggestion that we investigate moral fiber?

to be human is to err


it's about power relations (4.00 / 1)
It's about the manipulation of power relations.  A female representative could indeed be doing something unethical if she had more power in the situation.

I'm not into being morality police, but is this really the kind of government we want?  I mean, sure, it "works" after a fashion, but how can women (or any other traditionally disadvantaged group) defend their interests in politics if the only way they can get anything is to "sleep on it"?  My goodness, even pre-industrial societies and indigenous (supposedly "less advanced") societies were more forward-thinking than that when it came to women and power-sharing.

To dial down the outrage... can't Albany do better than this?


[ Parent ]
no (0.00 / 0)
Not as long as I have been watching closely, anyway.

That we women would be better off by far with Haudenosaunee governance rules and structures is, of course, quite true.  Maybe they would adopt us?


[ Parent ]
ever read (0.00 / 0)
"Sisters in Spirit"?  A book (some of it speculative, some factual, but still interesting) about the interactions between the early feminists and Haudenosaunee women.

[ Parent ]
Yeah! (0.00 / 0)
...and gave copies to my daughter and daughter-in-law, too.  The books on the parallels between the Great Law of Peace and the UN founding documents are pretty good, too, forget titles.

[ Parent ]
anyone who chooses (0.00 / 0)
to "share themselves" with those who are essentially under their care whilst in our state's capitol should probably run out of town on a rail, no matter their gender. period.


TODAY is day one. It always is.

[ Parent ]
including the governor? (4.00 / 2)
It is not 100% kosher for a legislator of any rank to be having affairs with staffers, by that reasoning (and I don't feel I disagree with the basic premise...)

Like it or not, Paterson's admissions lead to a gray area.  I think at this point, politically, and emotionally, most people don't want to go there.  I don't.  People in Albany don't seem to.     (And then there are whole entire cans of worms to uncork when it comes to sex, power and racism in Albany and in the world... I know I have no energy for that today.)  It's a question of weariness and shades of gray - especially after Spitzer, I think, really displayed some egregious behavior (he would have prosecuted "Kristen" as attorney general with no qualms).

On the other hand, "cattle calls for interns" is just obviously something to get worked up over.

All of us have someone who has power over us; most of us have power over someone else. (yes, even us women)  The more aware we are of our place on the power ladder, the more honorable or reprehensible our personal actions in relation to other people are.  However I think it's safe to say that many (most?) of us don't have a crystal clear picture of how power relates to us personally.  So we really believe we aren't doing anything wrong.  

This is why I prefer to take a wait and see attitude... and to just educate people (such as women) about power and history generally.  But sometimes... as with Spitzer... the affront is just too great.  "Your mileage may vary"

Excelsior.

 


[ Parent ]
i agree with much of what you've written (4.00 / 1)
but, one of the biggest problems i have with all of this boils down to the terms "interns" and "staffers." what is described in the article is the predation of interns, many of them not much more than children. people send their kids to albany to learn and hope that the adults, especially the adults with the most power, are looking out for them, not looking down their shirts. interns are unpaid and mostly quite young. staffers are adults and professionals. one should always be conscious of the power dynamics at play in interpersonal relationships, but i trust consenting adults to deal with them properly much more often than i do for the youngest and weakest players in the game.  

TODAY is day one. It always is.

[ Parent ]
shades of gray (0.00 / 0)
Yes, this is all about shades of gray and it's hard to institute laws, rules and guidelines for that reason.

I used to be actively involved in educating people about abuse in Olympic-track sports (coach sexual abuse against students, but it really does pervade many different relationships in Olympic sports, gymnastics and figure skating in particular, and professional women's tennis too).  But you can't do any good in the area if you are continually shocked and outraged.  And there are so many shades of gray, aside from outright illegal ones.  

I'm just a firm believer in empowering people with information, making sure existing laws are enforced, and thinking hard about whether you ought to have some new laws or ethics guidelines.  Mostly I'm an information person.  And there is just so much information you can present and then parents, athletes (or interns) have to negotiate it for themselves.  Still, I believe there is much room for improvement.


[ Parent ]
They now have mandatory "training" before every session.... (0.00 / 0)
...which, those I have spoken to about it say, consists of "please, please, please don't sleep with the interns."  Just the past few years.

That these poor youngsters are naive was always proven by each session seeing a handful leave pregnant.  Feudal-style power is not pretty, although the trappings of the court glitter mighty-bright enough to dazzle most Cinderellas.


[ Parent ]
Not That This Is a Defense (4.00 / 1)
but from everything I've read, it's almost impossible to become an intern until at least junior year of college, by which point most people aren't exactly ignorant about the world.

Exploiting power imbalances to further a personal relationship is always inexecusable, but over the years I've seen more than a few young workers -- both in government as well as private industry -- at the bottom of the hierarchy make themselves available to those higher up in the hope that it will provide them with an easier path to advancement, connections, recommendations, etc.  So there is fault at both ends (though the vast majority of blame should be apportioned to the more powerful individual).

And FYI, Assembly and Senate interns receive a stipend of $4140 for their 18-week term, which if viewed as salary, is just about minimum wage, so they're not technically "unpaid".

Again, this is mostly a devil's advocate argument here, not a defense of deplorable, exploitative behavior.


[ Parent ]
culture (4.00 / 1)
There is a culture of sexual power in Albany.  Has been for a long, long time.  Part of that means that we have relatively few women in office, or appointments, at all.  I've posted this here several times before, so, forgive me, but, it does matter-- please see http://www.cwig.albany.edu/, "publications" tab, to see how abysmal NYS is in terms of elected or appointed officials of the female gender.

And, it is not really so much "women" who are the &$*!-ees in this process, as female adolescents and "young women" (under 24 or so).  It's a culture.  It goes deeper than the elected officials.  Those of you who think you will purge it, please show me your replacement army who will run the government.  If you are amassing an all-mature-women shadow government, show me where to sign up.


[ Parent ]
touche... (0.00 / 0)
If you are amassing an all-mature-women shadow government, show me where to sign up.

LMAO!


[ Parent ]
I'm thinking... (0.00 / 0)
you must be a guy with steady work and income.  It doesn't feel funny to me, just sad and hopeless.  But, glad it cheered you.

[ Parent ]
shadow govt (0.00 / 0)
we SHOULD be amassing an all-mature-women shadow government.  That can be done.  It can be done because we have a fourth estate.  

[ Parent ]
I am a male intern (4.00 / 4)
And I would never succumb to any such siren of a lawmaker.

If the siren cried out my name, I'd quickly become a whistleblower.  I hope my female counterparts would do so as well; as citizens, they are the ones with the real power.  Reminding our citizens of this simple fact and engaging the electorate is the first step to ending this kind of thing.

That, and I'm at my internship to work for the people, not get laid or make innapropriate "connections" with the legislators.


[ Parent ]
Pigs In Albany | 26 comments
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