NY-21: Hillary's Exit Bad for Brooks?

Tips, Disclosure, Cross Post (4.00 / 1)

I am a Steck for Congress volunteer.

Cross-Posted on DailyKos.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 22:52:31 PM UTC

I'd be amazed if HRC did not help Brooks (4.00 / 2)

More questionable is whether Bill will also campaign in NY-21.

Despite Hillary's big debt, I would expect Bill at least to raise money for Brooks, who worked both for Sen Clinton's district office and her presidential campaign.

Of the leading candidates running for this very safe Dem open seat, Brooks, who shares Clinton's issue positions, is the least progressive.

Brooks, with the support of the Clintons, Emily's list, and Albany Mayor Jennings, could sneak through the Dem nomination as the only woman in the field.

That is why, although I support Steck, I encouraged the Working Families Party to make an endorsement, knowing that it would be Tonko,  a longstanding ally of the labor movement.

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by: Albanius @ Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 23:31:23 PM UTC

Let's see what happens (4.00 / 1)

Bill coming to Albany would be something, indeed!  What an interesting testing ground this district could be.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 01:44:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I like Steck (4.00 / 1)

and, while collecting 15 or so signatures for him last weekend, found that every signer liked what they heard (from LuLu and me) about him.

We did this in a town (Schodack) where the town Democratic committee has endorsed Brooks. But the town committee types who support Brooks are evidently not working much.

Brooks will obviously be hurt, maybe fatally, by Hillary not being on the top of the ticket.

Re: Tonko, he will not work as hard as Steck, and will rely on union support at the doors. Since he, unlike Steck, does not do that anymore.

I'm a solid Democrat, so I'll work for and vote in November for whoever wins the primary.

But I think Steck is clearly the most progressive/liberal candidate.

And, as a Kossack, I prefer more and better Democrats in Congress.

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by: devtob @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:13:59 AM UTC

Tonko (0.00 / 0)

"Tonko, he will not work as hard as Steck, and will rely on union support at the doors. Since he, unlike Steck, does not do that anymore."

Tonko is famous for how hard he works, not for elections but because he cares about the people in his district.  He is known for being at every community event.  He is famous for going door to door despite not having an effective Republican opponent in many years.  Paul will work as hard as or harder than Steck and already is.

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by: JustAStudent @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:35:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The thing is (0.00 / 0)

Steck has been out there campaigning much longer than Tonko has in this race.  That, and in this year, voters seem to be searching for "new" rather than "been around a long time."  Not that being around a long time is a bad thing or that Tonko would make a god-awful Congressman; no way.  I'd work for him in the general too, but for now, I feel that Phil Steck fits the mold of this year more than any other candidate.

It's just like Clinton-Obama.  Both could have easily won and I'd be close to equally happy.  It was just one person's time and not the others, and the people really made their choice based on personal preferences, not necessarily policy minutae or voting records.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 12:22:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Steck's been around (0.00 / 0)

Phil Steck has been in elected office for 10 years and in the party organization longer than that.

Tonko and Steck are both experienced candidates, not outsiders.  Thats why I wish this race was more an honest discussion of the issues and their accomplishments rather that foolishly trying to put it in Clinton-Obama terms or outsider-insider terms.  The facts simply don't agree with those characterizations.

I am not attacking Steck by pointing out he is an insider since he is a party chair, he is an elected, he has spent a large percentage of his expeditures on out of state hired gun consultants,  he has raised a large amount of money from trial lawyers and other economic elite, and that many of his donors also have given to Republicans.  These aren't necessarily bad things, they just certainly prove he is not an insurgent.

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by: JustAStudent @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 00:00:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

A few things (0.00 / 0)

First: In Albany County, just because you are in the party organization, it doesn't necessarily mean you are "in." That's the kind of system Phil is running against, on terms that I personally view as an outsider and an insurgent.  You really can't pin the label "outsider" or "insurgent" on someone on a factual basis; it's up to each persons own distinctions.

Second:  I'm realizing is that people feel the same way about certain issues based on that particular framework for a long time.  Some are certain to apply those frames to another big primary.  I don't think that's foolish.

Third: If you want honest discussions on the issues, I recommend not calling people foolish in the midst of said discussion; or using words like "large" to describe amounts of dollars when you've said before you have the numbers but will not provide them; or relying on hostile framework such as "hired gun" consultants.  Campaigns hire consultants and other professionals to help them compete, but referring to only one campaign's staff as "hired guns" won't accelerate the discussion you seek.

Besides, on a humorous note, what would that make me?  A "volunteer gun?"  Are Tracey Brooks or Arthur Welser going to have to dodge my "sniper fire"?

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by: Soundpolitic @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:05:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not calling anyone (0.00 / 0)

I'm not calling anyone foolish, I just think a certain description is foolish, there is a key difference.

"hired guns" is a general discription, not derogatory.  Most campaigns hire professionals.  Its normal.  I don't have a problem with it.  I merely pointed out that despite you saying and the Steck campaign according to you saying Steck's people are all local, they are not.  He has hired out of state consultants like alot of traditional campaigns do.

If you want to know the totals from lawyer and lobbyists, go to the FEC and the state board of elections websites.  Its all public record.  

I asked about Phil's record because its not as easy to find like who his donors are.  There aren't mentions of Phil Steck in the paper as a "civil rights" lawyer until this campaign.  There is nothing on google I can find saything that not related to this campaign.  Thats why I asked you to provide what Steck's record is.  I've looked at the Albany County website and there simply isn't much in the way of accomplishments there listed for Steck.  Steck's own website doesn't even explain his legislative accomplishments.

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by: JustAStudent @ Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:34:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's a Website For You: (0.00 / 0)

Paul Tonko state filings for his Assembly campaigns.

Some interesting contributions of note:

You took the Steck campaign to task because a handful of his contributors, not Phil Steck himself, donated to Republican campaigns.  Well, Paul Tonko took money from one of the Republican candidates running for the same seat he is today:

BUHRMASTER, JAMES
290 VLEY ROAD
SCOTIA, NY 12302 250.00 11-AUG-01

The question I want answered is this: do you hold Paul Tonko to the same standards you've set for Steck, or are you willing to overlook the fact that Paul Tonko took money from the Republican he could be running against in November?

Oh, and I like these, too:

ENRON CORP.
PO BOX 1188
HOUSTON, TX 77251 350.00 08-MAR-01

Enron was a popular company in early 2001.  Who knew what and when?

If you add all the contributions Paul Tonko has recieved since 1999 from energy companies and their lobbyists, you break six figures.  And there are far more trial lawyers on Tonko's filings than Phil Steck's.

I also see contributions from PACs and energy lobbysists in Georgia, Hawaii, Massachusettes, New Jersey, and of course, Washington, DC, among others.

Oh, and here's another website: State Senator Jim Wright's contributions.  For the record, Senator Wright is the Republican chair of the Senate Energy and Telecommunications.  Since you were so upset that Steck contributors were giving to other Republicans, why don't we compare the list of contributors that donated to both Energy Committe Chairs, Democratic and Republican:

AES NEW YORK PAC
AT & T PAC
AUTOMOBILE DEALERS OF NY PAC
BELL ATLANTIC NY STATE PAC
BOND, SCHOENECK & KING, LLP
CABLE PAC
CH ENERGY GROUP, INC.
CHAIN PHARMACY ASSOC. OF NY PAC

See my point?

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by: Soundpolitic @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 00:04:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You have no point (0.00 / 0)

I have NEVER criticized Steck for the actions of his donors.  I have refuted YOUR assertion that the economic elite that donate to Steck are doing so because they all share his values.  Its NORMAL for campaigns to get money from many different types of donors including those who give to Republicans.  I have never attacked Steck for it.  I have pointed out that it is another sign of being a traditional campaign.

You also haven't answered if Steck's campaign lied to you by claiming to not having any out of district consultants besides pollsters and if not, how did New Hampshire and West Virginia get in the district.

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by: JustAStudent @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 01:09:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's your point (0.00 / 0)

First of all, nobody ever lied to me by telling me they weren't where they came from, nor did I ever claim Steck had nobody from out of state.  That's what the words "most" and "except" are for.  This "New Hampshire and West Virginia in the district" is silly.  You might ask Paul Tonko if he thinks Honolulu or Houston were part of the 105th AD.

And you're getting real nitpicky on my words with this "shared values" stuff.  What you seemed to be doing was smearing Steck's contributors for having also contributed to Republicans as if that were something that the Steck campaign was to be held accountable for.

So I'm showing you that Tonko, as the Democratic Chair of the Assembly Committee on Energy, has a very similar list of energy corps and lobbyists that have also donated to his Republican counterpart in the Senate.

Your thoughts on that are what interest me, since it was your standards of accountability that I applied to "your" candidate.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 02:22:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thoughts (0.00 / 0)

"I just confirmed with the Steck for Congress campaign's Deputy Campaign manager that, minus a couple of pollsters, all of Phil's staff lives in the 21st.  So cut it out with this "out of state" stuff. "

You very clearly said "ALL" minus a couple pollsters.  The consultants I have pointed out are not pollsters.

I don't have a problem with consultants or the donors.  I have said this so many times it is unbelievable you still don't get it.  I have a problem with the characterization that Steck is not an insider and your comment that his donors are only giving because they "share his values."  They clearly are just like the donors of all other traditional campaigns.  His consultants are just like other traditional campaigns too.  I am not being critical, I am just pointing out he is not an insurgent.

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by: JustAStudent @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 02:48:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then quit (0.00 / 0)

taking up TAP's space on the net and recognize that it's a difference of opinion we have on this "insurgency" thing, which I don't even mention up thread.

Great job continuing to show that you're nitpicky.  I said "all the staff, minus a couple pollsters."  Pollster, consultants, you probably misunderstood me in the first place.  Whatever.  Same with the "shared values" thing.

You still haven't shared your thoughts with me about WHY DOES DEMOCRATIC CHAIRMAN OF THE ASSEMBLY ENERGY COMMITTEE PAUL TONKO'S LIST OF DONORS COMPARE SO WELL WITH THE LIST OF DONORS TO THE REPUBLICAN COUNTERPART IN THE SENATE?

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by: Soundpolitic @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 03:03:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nitpicky (0.00 / 0)

You call it nitpicky, I call it fact checking.

I have agreed with you that we can't hold candidates accountable for who their donors are.  I only pointed out Steck's donors in response to your comments.

Did the Steck campaign in fact say "all the staff, minus a couple pollsters"?  If so, didn't they lie to you since they clearly have out of state consultants?

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by: JustAStudent @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 12:19:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Disambiguation (0.00 / 0)

That's what I say the heart of this pie fight is.  I said "consulatants" and you jumped on it.  The people I talked could could be defined as consultants, pollsters, staff, or lemmings so long as it fit your empty argument.  Nobody every lied to me about where they were from, but you kept on asking me after I answered in a vain attempt to call into question the Steck campaigns honesty.  You were being nit picky so you could make that argument.  And it's failed.  Move on.

The "shared values" argument was you being nitpicky.  It wasn't a catch-all phrase, but you saw words with which you could jump on me.  Why the hell else would an individual donate to a campaign?  You're nitpicky, searching for anything anything anything to win a pro-Tonko argument.

"Fact checking" would be calling up ALL the donors and asking them why they donated.  Knock yourself out.

Still no word from you on why Energy Committee Chair Paul Tonko's list of corporate energy lobbyist donors is so very similar to his Republican counterpart in the Senate.  Just more pie.  I invite, as TAP's self-proven resident Tonko concern troll, to share your thoughts on this matter in my latest diary regarding Mr. Tonko.  Still no diary from you, either.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 19:51:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Information You Chose To Overlook: (0.00 / 0)

From Phil's County Legislature website:

Among Phil's legislative accomplishments are the advancement of projects to renovate the Albany County Courthouse and construct new Criminal Justice and Family Court buildings to accommodate growing civil and criminal court caseloads.  He sponsored legislation to turn over county tax-foreclosed acreage to the Town of Colonie for expansion of the Schuyler Flatts Cultural Park, reallocate County Empire Zone acreage to include new sites in Colonie and Menands, and expand senior services and property tax reductions to seniors and the disabled based on income.  Phil has also taken particular interest in seeing that the County reduce its subsidization of the Albany County Nursing Home by supporting the County Executive's plan to build a new Nursing Home to obtain more favorable Medicaid reimbursement rates while at the same time striving to make the Nursing Home more attractive to private-pay patients.  Phil is a strong supporter of efforts to cut insurance costs by making the County a self-insurer.

Instead, from you, we get "there simply isn't much."  You must have been going for a "fair and balanced" comment...

There are links on philsteck.com that reference his co-sponsorship of a resolution calling for the end of the Iraq War.  Only one other legislator had the courage to join him.  Yet you chose to overlook that.

Here is one of Phil Steck's most recent victories as an attorney:

Lou Cioffi served as Athletic Director of the Averill Park Central School District from 1981 to 2002. The School District terminated his employment, claiming it was saving money by combining his position with another. Cioffi was the only person who lost his job as a result of the alleged reorganization.

           In July, 2002, Cioffi filed a lawsuit against the School District in the United States District Court for the Northern District of New York. Cioffi asserted that he had been fired for complaining to the School Board concerning how the School District had handled a severe hazing incident which occurred in the football locker room.  A public employee, such as Cioffi, cannot be terminated from employment, or have his job eliminated, for speaking out on a matter of public concern.

           The United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled that Cioffi's had spoken out on a matter of public concern.  For example, the hazing incident was widely reported in both the print and TV media. Cioffi was one of the administrators who uncovered the hazing incident. For years, he had warned against certain practices in the football program, including use of performance enhancing substances.

   The School District had asked the United States Supreme Court to review the Appeals Court decision in favor of Cioffi.  The Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

    On March 17, 2008, after five years of litigation, the School District settled the lawsuit for $567,500.        

    Cioffi's attorney, Phil Steck, said: "The School District fought this case tooth and nail for years, even taking it to the United States Supreme Court."

I found this, by the way, on the first page of a Google search for "Phil Steck" and "lawsuit."  You might not be looking hard enough.  Had you been, you might have found this page, Phil Steck's message as Colonie Democratic Chairmain, which any Democrat should find inspiring:

There is no better way to support the aims of the Democratic Party than by getting involved at the local level. To begin with, Colonie is important in the grand scheme of things. Colonie is a Town of 80,000 people and has more registered voters than any other City, Town, or Village in historically Democratic Albany County.

We ask you to stand with us against the policies of George Bush, which are inconsistent with what the United States was intended to stand for as a nation.

It is important to understand that these efforts begin at the local level. And there is one big advantage of being involved locally - we are most grateful for the work volunteers do, in a way that higher elected officials seldom are. So, I urge you to get involved, for the sake of our community, our State, our Nation, and our World.

Phil Steck

If you need me to further look into things for you (so you don't "accidentally" miss something in the future) I will be happily obliged.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 00:54:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Didn't miss a thing (0.00 / 0)

I searched for Phil Steck and Civil Rights and nothing came up besides this campaign.  I admit I didn't see this case since I did not search "lawsuit".  Its interesting that if it were such a significant case why he wouldn't put it on his campaign website.  If he is a great civil right lawyer, how about telling us about some more of his cases, since he has been doing this for two decades there must be a long list of major cases. Thanks for the offer to look into this.  I like that we are actually discussing records finally.  

The message is normal rhetoric for a town chair, not an accomplishment.

I had already read the county website.  The County website shows him backing alot of County Executive Mike Breslin's (a Tonko supporter) initatives.  It doesn't show any controversial progressive issue that Steck was able to lead the charge on.   In fact, his attempt to do that on the Iraq War once he started running for Congress failed.

I find it a little funny that you expect the opposition to find out your candidate's record for you. And when you actually search around to find something for the candidate you are backing, you feel the need to sarcastically state the other side might be overlooking it.  Normally, one would try to present their candidate's record rather than having to be badgered to do so and then certainly would not be indigant that someone would dare ask for the record.

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by: JustAStudent @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 01:30:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Look Closer (0.00 / 0)

If you want a list of all of Steck's lawsuits, I'm sorry, because I cannot afford LexisNexis.  In personal conversations with the candidate, he's talked to me about several cases, including those he did as Assistant District Attorney in New York and Rensselaer Counties.  This information is on his website; never before have I heard of demanding placing a list of court decisions with the candidate as counsel on a candidate's website.

I think that demonstrates your partisanship in being completely unwilling to take the candidate at their word, especially with the badgering you dole out and the cynical arguments you consistently fall back on while hijacking yet another thread.

Cynical?  Yes.  When you say "The message is normal rhetoric for a town chair, not an accomplishment." I am reminded of the old argument that our Democratic nominee had only ever given speeches and never actually accomplished anything.  I thought we'd moved past the kind of back and forth you are provoking.

And yes, again: "In fact, his attempt to do that on the Iraq War once he started running for Congress failed."  That's pretty cynical.  Not to give Steck any props on this really highlights your bias and unwillingness to engage in a discussion of the issues.

And JustAStudent, any decent campaign, if they want to be known as decent, is expected to do opposition research.  And who's to say I haven't tried to present the records of all these candidates?  What other media source is going out and interviewing all the candidates?  And your numerous "wrong", "facts", "opinion" postings insinuating that I am "full of" "bull" and "blind" smacks in the face of your charges of badgering and sarcasm.

You come on my diaries, set the tone above by calling me "foolish" when I respond to the charges you incessantly bring up, and then accuse me of being sarcastic and of badgering you.  You're lucky I respond to your comments at all, because after all these threads of you not answering questions and putting forth bogus claims (which are beginning to sound either right-wing or heavily-coahced), I might be the only one left who is taking you seriously.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 02:53:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not one bogus claim (0.00 / 0)

You haven't disproven a single claim I have made.  Everything I have said I back up with documented facts.  I call bull when you say things that aren't true, like when you argued that Steck didn't have out of state consultants like his own filing show or the fact that his donors share his values which is easily debunked or your claim that Tonko is relying on big events and name recognition over grassroots campaigning.

What question haven't I answered?  Half the time I respond point by point to your posts.  What bogus claim have I ever made?  What Right-wig claim have I ever made?  Just because you disagree doesn't make it wrong and certainly doesn't make it right-wing.  The demonization of everyone that disagrees with oneself as right-wing is exactly the same kind of false partisanship that Obama has spoken against.  Sounds kinda like Hillary in Ohio saying Obama resorted to Right-wing attacks by holding her accountable for her record.  If you think I am tough, wait until the fall when we face the Republicans.

Not every lawyer lists all their cases, but most do discuss them if that is their justification for running.  He is claiming to be a civil rights attorney as an important part of his experience, that makes the cases he has taken relevant.  Why are you so unwilling to answer questions on his record?

I don't work for the campaign and I am especially not their op research guy.  I am a concerned citizen who is asking questions. If you want to make the argument that Steck is the best candidate you should be also backing that up with facts about why, not just his campaign statements.  Thats democracy.

I have never called you "foolish" I have critized your characterizations such as Steck being the Obama of this race as "foolish."  You can criticize someone's comments without the person.  I have praised your coverage and your personal accomplishments.  Maybe this medium isn't fully capturing my intended difference in tone, but I hope I can be clear.

Obama is not a great candidate because of his rhetoric, he is a great candidate because of his record that supports his rhetoric.  Rhetoric alone is not a record.  Every town chair writes those kind of rally the troops emails and posts.  They are fine but not a record worth running for congress on.  It is not cynical to realize that.  It is also not cynical to realize that Steck failed to pass his most progressive resolution that he did not even put foward until after he started running for Congress by my understanding.  It is not cynical to challenge a candidate and ask about their record.

I guess the heart of this goes to why are you so frustrated by debating this race if you are so dedicated to covering it?

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by: JustAStudent @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 12:10:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]