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The Devil Went Down to Georgia

by: Dan Jacoby

Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:23:46 AM EDT


Note: This is an early impression, and there's probably a lot of information that either isn't out there, or hasn't reached me yet. But it's a start.

This is cross-posted from my website.

**********************

Russia has invaded two so-called "breakaway provinces" that are officially part of the sovereign nation of Georgia. Now, despite of two cease-fire announcements, the Russians are not leaving. In addition, they are threatening to open up a second front by invading Poland.

So whose fault is it?

Clearly, there is a convoluted situation in the area known as South Ossetia. Both South Ossetia and Georgia were annexed by Russia in 1801, but the area has been Balkanized for centuries, and neither the Romanovs nor Soviet rulers were able to change that. Both North and South Ossetians have long fought for unification. North Ossetians tended to be willing to be, if not part of Russia, at least closely associated with that country. South Ossetians, on the other hand, have tended to prefer complete autonomy.

When the Soviet Union split up, North Ossetia remained under Russian rule, and South Ossetia, while technically part of Georgia, fought a minor war that ended with de facto independence of Georgia in 1995.

In 2004, the new Georgian President, Mikheil Saakashvili, moved at first to bring the semi-autonomous region more firmly under Georgian control, but later presented a plan that would cement even more local control by a South Ossetian government. In a 2006 referendum, the people of South Ossetia almost unanimously expressed their desire to split off from Georgia and create their own, independent state. For the past two years, there have been several incidents of violence, generally South Ossetian separatists attacking Georgian military.

Complicating the matter is the high probability that separatists from neighboring Chechnya, a region under Russian control that has been fighting for independence, are hiding in Georgia, and staging attacks from Georgia into Russia.

Over the past two months, the situation has intensified, as the Georgian and South Ossetian military have exchanged several gunfire and mortar attacks, each accusing the other of being the aggressor. Russian military planes have overflown the area in a show of strength and support for South Ossetian separatists.

In early July, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced that the U.S. would support Georgia's entry into NATO. This just added more fuel to the fire, since Russia has been increasingly uneasy at the appearance that they are being militarily isolated.

Late on August 1, Russian forces entered South Ossetia.

Since the invasion, many political leaders of the western world have officially condemned Russia for their invasion, but aside from some humanitarian aid to Georgia, nobody has done anything about it. Two cease-fire announcements have proven inaccurate. The Russian military invasion has come within shouting distance of the Georgian capital, Tbilisi. And now, in protest over the U.S. announcement that it will put an anti-missile system in Poland, Russia is threatening to invade that country as well.

Clearly, Russia bears much of the blame, since they actually invaded a neighboring country in force, and may be planning to annex regions that do not belong to them. But Russia is not alone. The Georgian government has failed to resolve the situation. Regional entities, such as the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE), have also failed to step up and find a solution. The United Nations has failed as well.

Meanwhile, George W. Bush continues to prove that he is either horribly deluded, or the world's greatest idiot. He actually said, "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century," apparently unaware that bullying and intimidation (and invasion) are exactly how he has conducted foreign policy. Great!

This could have been an opportunity for the United States to be the world's diplomatic leader, but it won't happen for two reasons. First, a good case could be made that if Russia weren't feeling so threatened by Bush administration policies (expanding NATO and putting anti-missile systems in former Warsaw Pact countries), they might be willing to negotiate rather than invade. Second, the way George W. Bush has handled this situation already makes it impossible for the United States to have any part of any diplomatic settlement.

This begs another question: Is it possible that George W. Bush wanted this situation?

It is well known that Bush has a fixation on Armageddon. Indeed, many people believe that his invasion of Iraq, with no provocation, and sold to America on a passel of lies, was his attempt to bring Armageddon. Expansion of war into the Caucuses only brings the world closer to a "final war." Certainly the Bush administration's foreign policy in the region seems designed specifically to cause Russia to take military action.

Regardless of whether this speculation is legitimate or plain foolishness, it is clear that George W. Bush deserves much of the blame for the situation as well. He could have spent the last seven years working with the man whose soul he claimed to know to help bring Russia into the 21st century as part of the western world, rather than isolating Russia militarily. He could have adopted a policy of diplomacy over invasion when there is no threat to America. He could have made friends around the world, instead of enemies. He could have tackled the "terrorist threat" head-on, instead of diverting his attention and our resources.

Unfortunately, George W. Bush, whether deluded or idiotic, is certainly unfit for command. And now the price is being paid, not only in our country and Iraq, but in Georgia as well.

There are a lot of devils at work here.

Dan Jacoby :: The Devil Went Down to Georgia
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Thank you Dan, this really helps put a great historical run up to the current (0.00 / 0)
events.  It also helps me to understand that the McCain rhetoric influenced by his Georgian Lobbyists in the campaign and so readily adopted by our mainstream media, is not the only take on these events.

The right wing is out there looking to demonize Russia to the point of citing the long Soviet history of military domination dating back to the Stalin era.  What these folks conveniently chose to forget or were unaware of is that Stalin himself was a Georgian!


Georgia invaded South Ossetia (0.00 / 0)
Russia responded.

On demonizing Russia (0.00 / 0)
Russia has a long, long history of invading and annexing neighboring lands.  It is a manifestation of their fear of invasion -- if they take over more land, then the invaders won't be able to reach Moscow before being defeated.

It works, as Napoleon and Hitler found out the hard way.

As a result of their history, Russians tend to think of all neighboring territories as parts of Russia that haven't been brought into the fold yet.

What's not being discussed in high political circles -- at least not publicly -- is the similarity between the South Ossetian separatists and what Russian officials refer to (and have referred to in my presence) as "Chechen terrorists."


[ Parent ]
Good and bad in this situation aren't very clear-cut (0.00 / 0)
Bush has no authority to tell any other country to respect the soveringty of its neighbors.  However, Russia still has no right to invade Georgian soil.  Georgia should have used much more diplomatic means to bring the breakaway provinces into the fold, but at the end of the day, it's still their sovereign territory and an internal matter.  Russia under Putin is startign to act more an more like Russia under Stalin, and I don't think that's a good thing either.  

[ Parent ]
Can't resist (0.00 / 0)
Shouldn't the Kosovo situation been an internal Serbian matter then?  Is Darfur an internal matter for Sudan?  Sovereignty is one of difficult concepts to deal with in international relations.  

One thing that is very important to remember while analyzing the present Russian incursion is that it largely is a direct response to Western drive for independence for Kosovo.  At the time, the Russians were quite explicit that Western interference in this matter would have consequences for Georgia and its breakaway regions.


[ Parent ]
Yes, but there is a difference if genocide/ethnic cleansing is happening (0.00 / 0)
No nation's sovereignty gives it the right to do those things.  These weren't happening in Georgia.  

[ Parent ]
Actually (0.00 / 0)
There have been claims from the Russian side of actions constituting "ethnic cleansing" in South Ossetia.  It should also be noted that certain factions objected to the notion that what happened in Kosovo was in fact ethnic cleansing.  I don't care to get in what constitutes ethnic cleansing and what does not.  Instead, I simply wanted to highlight the fact that, as you alluded to above, these things are difficult, and there is quite a different perspective of the entire situation from the Russian side.  


[ Parent ]
Of course (0.00 / 0)
if ethnic cleansing was actually happening, then it woul dbe a different situation.  The problem is right now neither side's claims are credible- we need a neutral international fact-finder to figure out what really happened.  

[ Parent ]
Arms sales, not Armageddon (0.00 / 0)
Bush is a lying shill working as an actor on behalf of a handful of oil and arms-related companies who are set to profit from war, and the attendent run-up in oil prices associated with the instability that comes from war.  His talk about Armageddon is as sincere as his talk about WMDs, and it all hides his real purpose, which is raiding our treasury to make his buddies richer and more world-dominating.  Look at all the beefing-up that the Iraq war gave the Blackwater Group and other "private contractor" armies (extensively used by oil companies in Africa).  Now, maybe they can weather being thrown out of Iraq like the profiteering invaders they are, without missing a profitable beat, as long as Georgia has to hire some.... or Poland.  Bet ol' Unc Sam may even send some aid to pay 'em with, or maybe some Humvees.  Whats good for Daddy Warbucks is good for GM....

The seriousness of this crisis is far beyond its coverage (0.00 / 0)
I'm no fan of the Bush administration, but Georgia, while imperfect, is a small struggling nation that was invaded by a massively armed superpower, unfortunately because we're so bungled up in Iraq we can't possibly be prepared to diplomatically confront the Russians.  I've been saying all along that the war in Iraq has been detracting from bubbling up diplomatic crisis' in other parts of the world, in particular Georgia.

Now that Russia sees the United States in a paradigm, they see this as their best opportunity to tear bunch of holes open against Western Governments, I can almost see them threateningly begin to try to regain power in other parts of Eastern Europe (especially Poland and the Ukraine).

My suggestion(s): Sell arms to the Georgians, pass a UN Resolution Condeming Russia, increase aid to Turkey to get them tactically involved and engage the region diplomatically, and fast....or else we'll let an entirely separate can of worms besides the War on Terrorism be opened.


Sequence (0.00 / 0)
   "Late on August 1, Russian forces entered South Ossetia. "
There's a little more to it than that.  While not condoning the opportunistic over-reaction on the part of the Russians, Saakashvili appears to have underestimated the Russian response at the same time he overestimated the response from the West.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/...

  Since 2004, Georgia has doubled its armed forces.  Thousands were trained by the US military in advanced infantry techniques.  Arming them further against a Russian military that dwarfs them in every aspect would serve little except to demonstrate further how lacking the US is in diplomatic, moral and foreign policy direction.

  Don't judge other people by your own limitations.


Except that (0.00 / 0)
The thousands trained were not enough to combat the crushing Russian force, there needed to be more done, the US should be further engaged in the region.....that means providing more assistance to Georgia and getting the Turkish tactically involved, which would mean them training the Georgians and military pressure on the Russians from them as well.  This would provide enough of a rebuff to possibly lead to a real cease-fire and withdraw.

Letting Russia topple Georgia because we're tripping over our shoe-laces in Iraq would show true moral failure and indiscretion.


[ Parent ]
Not the answer (0.00 / 0)
Russia has a standing army of almost 400,000 (by 2006 estimates made before the current buildup) compared to Georgia's 45,000.  Georgia has less than 100 armed combat aircraft.  Russia has over 1,800.  Unless we give each Georgian soldier a tactical nuke, they will still be overwhelmingly overmatched.  The Russians have over 1 million (again, 2006 estimate) people in uniform. In contrast (not counting the regions that are largely in rebellion), there are 4.4 million Georgians in total.

  The Turks want nothing to do with this.  They see themselves as neutral in this matter and would probably be loathe to risk the $30 billion dollars in annual trade with their largest trading partner, Russia, and the continued interruption of oil and gas through the Tbilisi pipeline. At best, Turkey may provide humanitarian aid but they do not want any part of anything that even smacks of military support of Georgia.
http://www.turkishweekly.net/n...

  If we begin impotent saber-rattling, the Europeans will have a collective stroke.  Russia-Georgia isn't an ocean and half a continent away from them.  It's next door, and smack dab on top of the pipelines that supply their largest oil resources.  Truth be told, there's not much we can do at this point aside from increased diplomatic engagement (or any at all, finally) and patience.  Even the prospect of United Nations condemnation is remote with only one veto vote needed by a permanent security council member to quash any proposal.

  Don't judge other people by your own limitations.


[ Parent ]
How many..... (0.00 / 0)
Of Russia's soldiers are actually deployed to the region?

I'm not advocating saber-rattling, the Europeans have been involved in the cease-fire argeements and want a general end to the situation, Russia is taking this measure to show that their willing to play their hand despite what the West says.  This means that we do need to increase military aid to Georgia, even if it only means a slight buffer to the Russian military threat.  

Diplomacy can solve this problem, I don't want the Turkish (nor would they ever) to deploy troops to the region.  I do think that we should help create a stronger Georgia however and with a carrot-based solution, we could encourage Turkey to play a hand in settling the conflict.

The UN Resolution would probably not come from the security council, it would most likely come from the General Assembly, there would be broader support for such a resolution there.

If there was one thing that Ronald Reagan was right about, and I strongly disagree with the guy on many policies, it was that the Soviet Union was an "evil empire".  We are beginning to see that "evil empire" rise again.


[ Parent ]
Still not the answer (0.00 / 0)
 
   Turkey and the US haven't even agreed on the passage of aid ships http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-...

   The Turks aren't in any hurry to get involved in much of any way. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-...

   A General Assembly resolution is unlikely at this point and probably toothless.  http://www.rttnews.com/Content...

  The founding members of NATO can't even agree on suspending security talks as a threat; http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...

     How many troops  do the Russians currently have on the Georgian border? Enough to not only drive out the invading Georgians, but to also inflict whatever damage they wished within Georgia itself. The Russian army doesn't have to cross an ocean to get even more troops to Georgia. Arming the Georgians as an immediate response is not any part of the answer. It wouldn't do anything to address the imbalance of power and hurried US arms delivery to Georgia at this point would only exacerbate the situation.  It is probably the option furthest from being constructive or considered at this point.

   

  Don't judge other people by your own limitations.


[ Parent ]
Not the entire answer (0.00 / 0)
But certainly a part of it, infact, the Turkish Prime Minister is showing an increasing concern in the conflict http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-...

A UN Resolution wouldn't really be a show stopper and bring a total halt to the conflict, but an immediate vote in favor of would send a strong signal to the international community.  Inafct, the Security Council is in its fourth day of meetings in relation to the Georgian Conflict, although it seems a deadlock, it is often during these points that a solution could arise.  In the mean-time, the GA or another committee thereof (probably the Disarmament and International Security) could bring up discussion thereof.  It won't stop the guns, but it would at least send a message.  Given the tenor of the international community regarding the conflict, it seems like some UN response (albeit no peacekeepers) may be possible

That is true that the Russians smashed through the Georgian military and back into Georgia, it is an immediate response to help arm the Georgians.  It is also not the only answer but it would at least possibly put a partial band-aid on the problem, with the long term fix coming gradually (there is no one-stop solution).  I was speaking earlier in terms of immediate actions.

I've said before that we need to diplomatically re-engage the region, this re-engagement would have to come after at least the beginning of withdraw of US Focres from Iraq.  After that  we can strategically begin to hold a better position in talks between the Russians and the Georgians, and an Obama administration would also be able to involve other major powers in the talks that the Bush Administration (or a McCain administration) could not.


[ Parent ]
The UN is the international community..... (0.00 / 0)
....and not the one who needs to hear the signal.  You can wish in one hand, as they say, and see which fills up first.  There is no international consensus concerning what action to take. NATO and the UN have ruled out even discussing sending peacekeepers. Anything that comes out of the UN will be a proclamation, at best.  And the Russians won't have any regard for resolutions, let alone proclamations.  As we speak, they're building up forces in Georgia beyond the disputed areas. What happens in the next week will be almost solely up to the Kremlin.  Any US diplomatic engagement of any consequence will have to wait for the next Administration.

  Arms to the Georgians would not only be too little, too late, it would also be seen as provocative by the Russians and probably by others, also. This is what the Russians do to send a message.  Imagine what they do when they really mean business.

   Of course there's concern in Istanbul, but Turkey is already less than thrilled with the US about the Kurds, so any call for them to do anything that even remotely goes against their self-interest is an exercise in wishful thinking.

   I have no solutions.  I'm not a diplomat, I don't have any insight beyond what I gain from European sources, and I'm under no illusions that we have any real options after the disastrous neglect of our foreign relations responsibility.  But I feel fairly sure that UN resolutions don't mean bupkes to a bear.  And if you throw a stick to the guy he's mauling, he'll probably eat that, too.

  Don't judge other people by your own limitations.


[ Parent ]
Just ideas.... (0.00 / 0)
That I'm floating around, good perspective from the flip side of the argument though.  

[ Parent ]
Pointless (0.00 / 0)
Uhh, what end are you pursuing here?  Providing increased assistance to Georgia is pointless if their government is going to provoke the Russians with further incursions into the breakaway regions.  The Russians were clearly eagerly awaiting any excuse to move against Georgia.  This should have been apparent to the Georgians.  If they did not realize it, then the decision to move into South Ossetia was a stupid gamble that the Russian rhetoric was a bluff.  This demonstrates both recklessness and a divorce from reality on the Georgian side.  Support of reckless governments like this is not smart policy for the U.S. government.  However, it is also possible that the Georgians anticipated a Russian incursion, and expected more help from the West.  Needless to say, support for leaders that will intentionally draw the U.S. and other Western states into military conflict with Russia is incredibly foolhardy.  At any rate, the Russians will be in a similar state of anticipation for any provocation justifying military action against Georgia for the foreseeable future.  

The simply reality is that we have practically no ability to project power in this area of the world.  This is especially true in light of a current position, both diplomatically and militarily.  (Likewise, we have little ability to project power in Central Asia.  Thus, we have actively encouraged India to start to insert itself into this region, thereby acting as a strategic counterweight to Russian and Chinese influence there.)  

If you really want to curtail Russian "expansion," the key battleground will be Ukraine.  Ukraine is a larger, more independent state closer to Europe, even having large land borders with several EU states.  (The notion that Russia has any chance of forcing Poland back into its sphere of influence is ludicrous.)  If you're going to draw a line in the sand, then Ukraine is logically where the line should be, assuming you want the line to be one the Russians won't cross arbitrarily with no fear of reprisal.  

However, this entire approach is flawed, and takes an overly aggressive stance towards Russia.  This will do nothing but exacerbate relations and enrage the proverbial bear, forcing it be more defensive and belligerent.  The entire perspective of the West towards this conflict has predictably painted it as an act of Russian aggressive.  

Of course, this ignores the previous years of adversarial actions by the West towards Russia.  These actions include the unilateral decision by the U.S. to pursue a missile defense shield (undermining the strategic nuclear balance of power that has existed for the past 50 years). Also, promoting the Orange and Rose Revolutions in the first place could be viewed as nothing more than actively working to diminish Russian influence in its own backyard.  This would be somewhat akin to Russia actively promoting a peaceful revolution in Mexico by elements within that state that want to end close the bilateral relationship with the United States.  In addition, having the present administration constantly criticize Russia's slide towards authoritarianism, while simultaneously eroding civil liberties and enhancing the state's surveillance powers, does nothing to discourage the perception within Russia of Western, and especially American, aggression towards their former Cold War adversary.  

I didn't want to engage in this type of conversation, but I felt the impulse to step in because the approach towards Russia you're advocating is particularly dangerous.  Unfortunately, it also seems to be quite approximate to the general consensus view of policy makers in both political parties, with the exception of those with an even more hard-line stance.  Viewing this whole incident as an example  of Russian aggression without acknowledging U.S. provocation will lead towards an overly aggressive response.  This is a mistake.    


[ Parent ]
Klugstah (0.00 / 0)
Well, first of all, I don't think of myself as a particularly "dangerous" guy, but if you're calling me one thats cool, I wonder if you can give me an outfit like Neo wears from the Matrix and rocket launchers for each shoulder.....look, I understand if you disagree with my approach towards the Russians, but since Putin came to power there's been a particularly hostile attitude coming from Moscow.  Pushing the Georgians back into their own nation was understandable, crossing into Georgian territory, however, was inflaming an already volatile area of instability.

I do appreciate however, that the consensus here at least is diplomacy, and as I've said, an Obama administration would be much better able to handle the problem because it would recognize the need to withdraw from Iraq.


[ Parent ]
Cute (0.00 / 0)
I didn't call you dangerous.  I called that type of aggressive attitude towards the Russians dangerous.  I think it's dangerous that so many people in this country share such a knee-jerk hostility and willingness to embrace a confrontational attitude towards Russia.  Russia undoubtedly has utilized excessive force, and has committed actions that cannot be justified by the "peacekeeping" narrative it is using to mask a geopolitical demonstration of force.  My point, however, was that this excessive force, and this "particularly hostile attitude," must be understood in the context of Western confrontational behavior towards Russia.  

It would be helpful to keep some perspective here.  Keep in mind that presently Russia's nominal GDP is less than half that of any of the major European economies.  Its population is in a state of decline, it has struggled to diversify away from the energy sector, and it has thus yet not realized the potential its large, educated population could unleash.  Its impressive recent growth, its nuclear stockpile, and its incredibly large energy deposits ensure that it is in fact a great power, but let's not overemphasize how great this power is.  

There is a great disparity in power existing right now between the former Cold War adversaries.  This gap becomes much wider when we take into account that the Western nations have generally formed a bloc when it comes to relations with Russia.  The Russians are the one on the wrong side of this divide.  Our position of power allows us the opportunity to approach the situation reasonably, logically, and with a cool head.  We should not overreact and exacerbate this situation with bellicose rhetoric and actions.


[ Parent ]
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