Assemblyman Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn) Backs McCain Over Obama

Hikind (4.00 / 1)

He has been cross-endorsed for years and is part core group of leaders who foment Jewish/Black tensions in central Brooklyn. The only surprise here is that it came so late in the game.

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by: jacksonian dem @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 12:08:00 PM UTC

Are you that arrogant or just merely childish? (0.00 / 1)

You are a prime example of "if I don't like what the other person is saying and they don't agree with me then they should be excluded from the game." With all do respect, your lack of life experience and blind passion is conducive to these kind of outbursts. You may not want to believe it, but a Jewish person who is "pro" Israel might feel Obama is not. Even in one of his debates he waivered in his response to a question about supporting Israel while McCain was strong and clear (it was the "town hall" style debate - the 3rd? I don't recall, but certainly recall the response). In fact, Obama is on the record as stating Hezbollah and Hamas have legitimate claims. Again, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with Hikind, but I certainly would be concerned if a hate spewing anti-muslim or catholic religious leader was the center of a candidates religious observances for years. Why didn't Obama say or do something years before? Does he believe in part what Wright says? Put the shoe on the other foot. McCain has a minister or had one who was anti-homosexual. That is disturbing to me and should be to anyone regardless of party loyalty.

If you truly are a progessive who wants change, insulting a man (Hikind) for a legitimate view, whether you agree or not, is juvenile at best and arrogant and anti-democratic at worst. Don't tell someone to shut up and may it clear that only those who agree with you are intelligent and should be able to speak.

Thank you Robert "The Progressive" for your wisdom that your 20 something years have given you and that you have shared with us. Try to be open. Maybe a little less talking and a little more listening and understanding will serve you well.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 14:58:47 PM UTC

it's not just this (4.00 / 1)

hikind is generally an embarrassment.  

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:05:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's fine, but (0.00 / 0)

If a person's and website's platform is reform, progressive change and democracy by the people and not the few, then this outburst can't and shouldn't be tolerated. What should be tolerated is opposing views. It's counter productive to belittle, insult and tell someone to shut up because they are unintelligent.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:12:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

and we should do this (4.00 / 1)

whilst name calling and acting like an asshole?

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:17:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The point that is being made is what I am driving at (0.00 / 0)

That is, its counterproductive. I was making a point, albeit, not as subtle as I hoped. It was not a dig but a point to show how we can make legitimate comments and disagree (which I did) but if you are arrogant and condescending your message is f*cked up as mine was. Strike the condescending part and change Robert's name and you would agree with my statement. Let people share openly. That is how change comes about.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:21:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

that's doubtful (0.00 / 0)

as my girlfriend is israeli and most of her family lives in israel and they despise the reflexive "love israel to death" hawkishness that ghouls like mccain and rabid american born settler types have been pushing for decades.

i disagree with hikind on the merits as well as your clumsy defense of him.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:30:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I am thrilled (0.00 / 0)

you have a girlfriend and she is from Israel. Mazel Tov. That and two dollars gets you on the subway. My defense was far from clumsy. Take the blinders off. Try to think out of the box. It is ok if someone disagrees with you. I am not an "asshole." I'm sorry to have challenged you and your infinite wisdom. If the democrats take the state senate, who will you blame next for all of the ills of NY? Me?

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:12:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

yes, (4.00 / 2)

for fun.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:32:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

One point that I think is lost on you (0.00 / 0)

Its not Hikind or the merits of his argument that you only need to look at. Its tell someone to shut up because you disagree with them. Moreover, because you disagree with them they are unintelligent. Think about that statement. Now apply that to the national and global level. Where would that take us. People would fight for the sake of fighting, dig in their heals, lower the conversation. It would bottom out. Nothing would ever get done because it would become juvenile and hateful.

It's ok, Mr. Anderson, to admit that the post was wrong, not necessarily in content, but in fashion. Simply because you are on a side of something doesn't deem you or that side right. If that were the case, we should make you, or Robert, our fearless dictator leader.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:37:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A dictatorship? (0.00 / 0)

I'd like that. So long as I'm the dictator...

Just joking, of course. I had to add "just joking" before you accuse me of fueling fascism.  

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:49:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

a dictator? (4.00 / 1)

a dictator would have banned you.  

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:01:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

this from a commenter (4.00 / 1)

who advocated supporting Sen. Steve Saland (R).  

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by: jonah in nyc @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:12:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ahhh...I see (0.00 / 0)

While Im not in his district, I tried to do some of my own research and quite frankly I saw more than what was posted one-sided here. Objectively, were you impressed with Dow's announcement speech? Objectively, were you happy with some of the open legislation Saland has done? Objectively, is it acceptable to you what Rangel has done with his hosing and tax perks? Because I challenged your narrow views I can't make legitimate comments? Anything in that post wrong or incorrect? I support Patterson, he was a heck of a lot better than Spitzer or Pataki. Not that I need to explain my votes or future votes, but it is the person, not the party affiliation. I see you went to the same or similar school as you buddy. This one is a little different though. If I don't support all democrats for every office I cannot be heard. That's progressive!!!!!!  

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:18:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

All we know about you (4.00 / 4)

is that you seem to prefer a Republican candidate for State Senate and that you want to defend Dov Hikind, who is, to put it mildly, a long ways away from being a progressive icon.

If you really want to counter what you see as "one-sidedness" here, you might do better to post some diaries on your own positions rather than just shooting at other people's posts.

Join the community - don't just drive by and get annoyed when people shoot back.  If you can't be bothered, don't be surprised when these comments make people think you're a troll.

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by: simonstl @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:30:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If you want objectivity... (4.00 / 1)

Read a newspaper, turn on cable news (or the nightly news), pick up a magazine or read an unbiased Internet news website.

We, as bloggers, reserve the right to inject our opinion wherever we see fit. That's the nice thing about this blogging stuff. Unlike the "real" media, we can actually include our opinion and not be breaking a code of ethics. That's why the blogosphere has thrived. We have this freedom and its that same freedom that allows us to be opinionated and less objective than what you would see in the "real" media.

You accuse us of posting things that were one-sided. Well, why wouldn't they be? This is a progressive Democratic blog. If I had to pick between Ken Dow and Steve Saland, guess who I'm picking?

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:53:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Im going to finish wasting my time, but (0.00 / 0)

telling people to shut up, calling others unintelligent because they disagree, being opinionated to a fault, ignoring legitimate issues...that is progressive? Wow, I guess I need to take a class in good government or ask Chairman Mao to re-educate me in the correct way of thinking (your way!).  

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:02:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I respect everyone's right to choose... (4.00 / 1)

But it's one thing when you are just a citizen. Mr. Hikind is a Democrat who used our party to reach state government. This isn't about disagreement. He chose to betray the party PUBLICLY and say, as an elected Demcrat, that he was going to support Sen. John McCain.

And I took plenty of history classes. I won my first history award when I was in fifth grade for being the top social studies student in the class. In college, I received an "A" on my senior thesis discussing the role of the Internet in politics today. Now, I'm working for a firm that has a number of clients (including a few vets groups) where I'm helping carry out their message for progressive causes and concerns.

I also won, thanks to the assistance of this wonderful community here, a DFA/Netroots Nation scholarship that helped send me to Austin this year.

Those are my progressive credentials. Now let's hear yours.  

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:13:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are sadly confused... (0.00 / 0)

that you think loyalty to a party is tantamount to loyalty to one's nation. Clearly, unequivocally, without a doubt that is what you are saying. There are different stripes, shades, colors of opinions in each party. One democrat may be more conservative and one more liberal. They should not vote party line because the party wants them to. If the party is wrong, should they merely fall into line? Clearly, by stating he betrayed his party and he did so publicly you are arguing that every democrat should shut up and take it on the chin regardless of differences. your statement is not about Obama at this point its about not challenging the establishment within the party. Certainly not publicly. Loyalty to party first. Should Powell have shut up and not supported Obama? Please, Robert, listen to yourself. I may get attacked here, but I can't imagine anyone here would support that? Is being progressive falling into line and not disagreeing out loud? Wow, I am shocked and appalled (sort of like shock and awe). Moreover, I'm glad you won an award in the 5th grade and got in "A" in school. I can tell you are excited over this challenge, but don't go there.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:34:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You don't get it, do you? (0.00 / 0)

Answer these questions for me:

(1) What party is Assemblyman Hikind a member of?

(2) What party did Mr. Hikind use to get elected to office?

As for Colin Powell, he is not an elected official. I never questioned Hikind's loyalty to his country. But as someone who has used the Democratic primary to ascend to office, loudly proclaiming that he is for McCain slaps the Democrats right in the face. My point was that he didn't have to make his feelings about Obama known. He could have just gone in to the booth on Nov. 4 and voted for McCain quietly. Again, he chose to make this public and in doing so, smear Obama in the process. We don't like it when Joe Lieberman does that on the national level and we shouldn't like it when someone in New York who has used our party to get into office does the same.

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 19:11:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is a sad day... (0.00 / 0)

It's not about being progressive, Robert, is it? For you its all about party. Wow, that is sad. That is not progressive. Don't speak against the party. Lock step...Again, its not merely the content of the statement he made, but the fact that he challenged the party. I think you need a "re-education." Best of luck in your future wherever it may lead you. It will take more than an award in the 5th grade to take the distortion away from your eyes. Wow...

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 19:19:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wow (4.00 / 1)

You clearly never read our blog.  For months, our critics called us traitors, or "anti-Assembly" for daring to say that some of the responsibility for Albany's failures, lies with a member of our own party, Sheldon Silver.  And now we're "lock-step?"  Gimme a break.  

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by: Roatti @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 20:23:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't know if it's a sad day... (0.00 / 0)

Sure, it's cold out. But there's nothing to cry about.

Your questions shouldn't be directed at me. I have people all over this state that will tell you how progressive I am and how I have been a strong advocate for the Democratic Party. I don't agree with Democrats on everything (too many things to list here) but I'm sure not a Republican.

But I want to get you back on topic. While I love all this talk about me, let's talk about Assemblyman Hikind. And let's kick this all off with some questions for you since you defended him and decided that you were a much bigger man than I in the process.

(1) Is it about being progressive for Assemblyman Hikind (D-Brooklyn) when he decides to vote for the anti-progressive John McCain?

(2) Is it about being progressive for Assemblyman Hikind (D-Brooklyn) when he invokes Rev. Jeremiah Wright as one of the main reasons why he chose McCain over Obama?

Sorry, I'm not a "Joe Lieberman Democrat." I don't define the word "progressive" when it's convenient (for Lieberman, that's when it comes to environmental issues that can get him a committee assignment) and I don't waver on what political party is mine. I don't endorse, support or vote for the Republican nominee because the Republican isn't a progressive Democrat like me. It's really that simple. I don't waver on who I am and what I'm about. Mr. Hikind, apparently, wants to have it both ways. He wants to be loud and proud for John McCain while using our party to get himself re-elected. Sorry, that's not going to sit well with me.

Of course, I'm a real Democrat. I question my party when it needs to be questioned and I defend it when it needs to be defended. I don't buy into the rhetoric when all the other misinformed segments of society are. I do my own research and information gathering to form my own opinion.

I am not the one who needs to defend their progressive record, sir. It would be nice to hear what you have achieved as a progressive (if you even are one) and what you have done for the betterment of the progressive Democratic cause.

I'm waiting.  

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 21:39:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You know what's not progressive? (0.00 / 0)

Dov Hikind and that was clear LONG before he decided to endorse McCain.

I'd like to see him primaried, and not because of this, this doesn't surprise me, it's because he's a bigot.  

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by: nrafter530 @ Wed Oct 29, 2008 at 00:28:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Am I arrogant or childish? (4.00 / 1)

I'd like to think I'm neither, but I will let your opinions fall where they may.

By the way, if you disagree with me, it's best not to act like an idiot and start personally attacking me when, as you allege, I have insulted Hikind.

Let's deal with facts here, shall we? This is one look at Obama and his approach to Israel as published in Haaretz, an Israeli publication. They provided these quotes from Obama on Israel:

On Israel's security: "Our job is to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the region. That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That will always be my starting point."

On Iraq and Israel: "A consequence of the Administration's failed strategy in Iraq has been to strengthen Iran's strategic position; reduce U.S. credibility and influence in the region; and place Israel and other nations friendly to the United States in greater peril."

On American aid to Israel: "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs."

Boy, Obama sure does sound like he hates Israel and Jews.

As for your criticisms of me, you responded to what you call insults with... insults to me. If you wanted to make an intelligent point, you had your chance. Instead, you choose to take the low road. That's unfortunate, but you picked such a road.  

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 16:23:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So... do you support Obama or McCain? (0.00 / 0)

Because methinks you are a Republican. Not that that's a problem, but just be open about it.

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by: Roatti @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 16:55:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually (0.00 / 0)

I am enrolled in any party. It's definitely bad when primary season rolls around. Im very concerned about Obama, but it can't imagine voting where I may have Palin become my president. I know that doesn't answer your question, but that is my answer. What if I told you Libertarian?!?! Unfortunately, its difficult to chose the best candidate where two parties dominate the landscape. BTW, Robert (from above comment), I was not insulting you. I was making a point how if one attacks another it minimizes the value of the statement. Wouldn't you agree? Do you agree that your post and attack was improper, not necessarily in substance, but in the words used? Moreover, I never said Obama hats Jews. I merely stated in substance that there are different views and I can certainly see his.  

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:08:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes you were insulting me... (4.00 / 1)

You attacked my age, questioned how progressive I was and also took a few other jabs.

I don't agree my post was improper. It wasn't an attack. It was my own critique of Hikind's distorted position on Barack Obama and voting for McCain mainly because of Rev. Jeremiah Wright.  

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:44:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Of course you dont (0.00 / 0)

But it was. Telling someone to shut up and asserting they are not intelligent because you disagree is wrong. I think we learned that in the 1st grade if not earlier. I apologize (we all don't need a group hug). It was not my intention to actually insult you but to make the point how the insult detracts from the message. Clearly I was right.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 17:58:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

shut up (4.00 / 1)

you are dumb.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:01:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson (0.00 / 0)

You have opened the mind (and hearts) of others beyond the few people who routinely post here. You have enlightened me. I feel less "dumb." Im sorry for detracting from your self absorbed life. You and Robert are present day Messiahs in your grasp of the issues, respect for others, and tolerance. If nothing else, your posts here are, well, cute. Best of luck in your future endeavors (or lack thereof). I can't wait to get my new bumberstickers -  "Don't Challenge My Views, I'm Progressive!" or "I'm Progressive & You Are Dumb."

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:09:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

happy to be of service (0.00 / 0)

if you'll excuse me, i've got some dictatin' to do. please consider your windmills sufficiently tilted at.

good day.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:11:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bumper stickers? (4.00 / 1)

You're cheap.

How about t-shirts?

Banners?

Yard signs?

And you forgot my other favorite slogans:

"Shut up! I'm progressive."

"I'm too young to be progressive!"

"Vote Robert Harding: Dictator of The Albany Project"

Coming to an online store near you...

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:15:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I having too much fun and shouldn't respond, but... (0.00 / 0)

I'm not cheap. I'm trying to do my part on a limited budget. I have three kids, a mortgage, taxes, trying to pay off loans, save for kids school. I am doing my part. I'm certainly not cheap. I guess words like "cheap" come easy from a young man who does have the familial or financial responsibilities, life experience, and issues as a man with a family. One day, I hope you will learn. Again, I do what I can to contribute and support. Maybe you need to go back to school and learn about life and the differences we all have.

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by: 123allent @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:38:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are waste of time... (4.00 / 1)

And fresh air. I asserted Hikind wasn't intelligent because, here he is, an elected official and supposedly one of the more intelligent people in New York (the people of Brooklyn did elect him because he was smart and would represent them well, correct?) and he is voting for John McCain because of what again?

Because of Obama's silence about Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Even though Obama wasn't silent about Jeremiah Wright. There are also claims in there that Obama wouldn't be a friend of Israel, which is (again) false.

With a little research via "the Google", I found information on Obama's Israel stance and Obama providing his response to Rev. Wright's offensive remarks. Both would show that Hikind lacks the information needed to make his arguments and thus, I contend he lacked intelligence in his decision to vote.

And yes, I told him to shut up but the context in which I told him to shut up was when I said that no one needs to know (or cares) who Hikind "endorses." He isn't Governor David Paterson. He isn't Sen. Hillary Clinton. He's an assemblyman. That's it. His endorsement and two dollars will get you on the Subway. So when I said shut up, it was because no one needs to know who he is voting for. If he wants to vote for McCain, he can do so in private without making waves with it. But he chose this route, not I.

Unlike Hikind, I am a progressive and I am voting for Barack Obama. You can question my loyalty (as you did earlier) but I know where my loyalties. Mr. Hikind does not.  

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by: robert.harding @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:07:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Better question (0.00 / 0)

do you consider yourself progressive? and if you do, what the hell are you concerned about with Obama?  

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by: nrafter530 @ Wed Oct 29, 2008 at 00:30:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

thanks robert n/t (4.00 / 2)

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by: jonah in nyc @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 15:08:07 PM UTC

Hey, lookie there... (0.00 / 0)

...a heated little flame war over some very minor issue stuff, along with a big dollop of personal insult by a seldom-commenter.  Elections are coming, and I guess people are getting worked up.  Here's hoping we can keep it civil.  Especially, let's not insult our hard-working regular contributors.  They are keeping us all informed; they deserve better than to be personally insulted.  A now and then thanks might be more in order.

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by: robinia @ Tue Oct 28, 2008 at 18:38:56 PM UTC