GOP Retirements And The 'Gang Of Four'

The Gang of Four should take a look at Joe Lieberman... (4.00 / 3)

I was going to make a post out of this, but a comment will suffice (I think). Back in 2006 as we headed into January 2007 with a Democratic majority, we wanted Joe Lieberman to be a part of our conference. Actually, we needed him to be if we wanted to officially have the majority. He caucused with us and that was that.

This year, we pick up plenty of seats in the Senate where we don't need Joe Lieberman anymore. Sure, having one more senator in the majority wouldn't hurt, but if it's only the difference between 56 and 57 (or wherever it stands now), big deal. Let Lieberman walk. I'm sure the story would be different if it was the difference between 59 and 60.

But essentially what the Senate Dems said to Lieberman was we have a bigger majority now and don't need you caucusing with us while working against us. The last straw was the RNC, which was worse than Zell Miller, in my view. Joe Lieberman made a deal and he broke that deal.

Now we don't need Joe Lieberman and we will kick him to the curb. The "Gang of Four" should really think about this: Do they really want to be Joe Lieberman? Do they really want to face (A) Primary challenges and (B) Removal from our caucus when we get a bigger majority. I can guarantee that (A) will happen if they play games. And by 2010, (B) could happen. If I were them, I wouldn't play games.  

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by: robert.harding @ Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 22:08:34 PM UTC

If Marc Molinaro runs I will do everything I can for his opponent. (4.00 / 2)

I hate that guy. In the state assembly debate he absolutely freaked out when his opponent pointed out that incumbents almost always win the endorsements of interest groups. It was "The cheapest political shot" he had ever heard in his life, apparently. He made it personal by canvassing my college a few times and hiring paid canvassers to hand out literature that implied he was endorsed by Representative Gillibrand. Oh, and some sample ballots that blacked out the name of his opponent. All that effort and he only won 48 more votes than Saland.

But despite his poor targeting, he strikes me as a very good politician. He strikes me as a Mitt Romney, except better at hiding the phoniness. He can play the post-partisan moderate very well. I don't want him to be Governor of New York one day; we have to end his political career while it's in the crib.  

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by: Kanamit @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:15:40 AM UTC

yup. (4.00 / 1)

But despite his poor targeting, he strikes me as a very good politician. He strikes me as a Mitt Romney, except better at hiding the phoniness. He can play the post-partisan moderate very well. I don't want him to be Governor of New York one day; we have to end his political career while it's in the crib.  

bingo. please move to the head of the class.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

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by: phillip anderson @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:43:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Larkin, Owen Johnson, LaValle, Little and Volker (4.00 / 1)

I suspect they'll all split rather than sit among the minority for long.

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by: teaparty2 @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:44:09 AM UTC

Right (0.00 / 0)

Especially Volker.

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by: Historical Pessimist @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 17:09:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

How about some others? (0.00 / 0)

First of all, half the Republicans upstate have been living off of their reputation for providing pork.  That is going to end.

The NYT wrote before the election:
"Fifteen of the 32 Republican senators will be at least 65 by November. Seven will be at least 75."

Which ones are these and how many will decide it's time to leave now that the fun's over?  Trunzo and Maltese were two of the oldest.  But surely Padavan will want to retire after the scare he just had (if, that is, he didn't lose this time).

And seriously, how about some of the younger ones?  They might not retire, but NY State Senate is no longer a great platform for a future career.  How many of the aggressive youngsters will decide to aim for greener pastures (city and county executive positions, for instance)?

I would love it if one of the three old hacks representing Tompkins County retired, although until we get redistricted, a new Republican would have pretty good odds of winning.

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by: neroden @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 22:34:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Expect Winner (0.00 / 0)

to challenge Massa for Congress next round.

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by: robinia @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 23:35:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

so, when are they leaving? (4.00 / 3)

Yeah, I believe many of the old, tired Senate Republican lions will retire, probably not lasting out the term. They may not hang out long if they are in the minority but they are here now and the gang of four have leverage while this is the case.  Also, these four guys are nothing if not myopic.  For them, long-term issues are those that come up in the next two months and they are firm in their belief that they understand their self-interests better than any of us do.  If they look at Joe Lieberman they probably see a conservative who was a Democratic vice-presidential candidate.

I desperately want a functioning Democratic Senate majority not handicapped by extortion threats of somebody jumping parties at every turn.  The Governor is the guy who might be able to do this because then it is not Smith who gives in, except maybe to appoint Hispanics to leadership posts or an important committee or two which arguably should happen anyway.

Let's get the majority and hope it gets solidified by special elections resulting from retirements.  We get the latter only if we get the former.

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by: newtham @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 14:04:49 PM UTC

This could also mean the truce is over (4.00 / 1)

IMHO there are a substantial number of non-Latinos holding seats in minority majority state senate and assembly districts.  In each of those areas -- a truce so to speak has been in effect over the last decade or so.  It is the cause of a great deal of friction within the Democratic party downstate. I suspect that if the Dems decide to really go after the Gang of Four -- we will see a real bloodbath in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx with Anglo politicians getting replaced.  Frankly I've never understood why this has not already happened.

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by: ElPocho @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 14:39:30 PM UTC

Worst nightmare possibility (4.00 / 2)

for me is that, immediately upon gaining power, the NYS Democratic Party descends into a cicular firing squad entirely focused on the five boroughs, slings a bunch of mud that everybody upstate reads in the NY Times, and totally ignores the needs of any of the upstate areas.

More than fine, from my perspective, for ambitious Latinos to plot several primary challenges-- and get some support and coaching from progressives, too, and maybe some prestigious appointments to boost their visibility.  Not fine, not fine at all, is a lot of negative campaigning against sitting legislators, even if they really suck.  Trust me, noisy internecine conflict and self-centered deal-cutting with the other side is the one thing that can sink our ship and bring back the NYS Republican Party.

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by: robinia @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 15:24:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Coaching from progressives? (4.00 / 2)

I don't think the problem is that Latino/a politicos need coaching from progressives to win.  IMHO sentiments like that are emblematic of why Diaz et al. had to throw a monkey wrench into the Senate's gears.

Many of the candidates holding seats downstate need to retire.  Demographically those districts have changed substantially and in many cases these Anglo politicos vote with some regularity against the interests of their African-American and Latino constituents.  Anglo progressives need to really think about what it means to be progressive in an increasingly non-Anglo state.  This means a shift in emphasis which will enable African-American and Latinos to fully participate economically and politically in our state.  Now I realize that folks living upstate in largely Anglo enclaves are not very cognizant or even familiar with this issue.  However, this is one of the major domestic challenges facing this state and the nation for the next two to three decades.

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by: ElPocho @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 16:02:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So, educate me, then (4.00 / 1)

OK, am going to let that barb about "living in largely Anglo enclaves" go by, but, for the record, the upstate "enclave" I live in is about the same size as the country of France.  And, when I worked for an Assemblyman, it was a minority assemblyman from Brooklyn.

But, let's just assume for fun that I am a neanderthal white person with no brains whatever.  If the ambitious young Latino potential-candidates do not need support or coaching (which every successful candidate I have ever worked with has needed in large doses, regardless of race or ethnicity), then, why have they not won already?  We have primaries, we are not dependent on the good graces of an incumbent retiring to run for office.

Power, ya know, yields nothing without a struggle....?

I'm just suggesting that a positive approach will allow for positive change that allows good things to happen in "one NY" both upstate and downstate. A lot of noisy negativity toward sitting legislators will not hurt downstate progress, but, will reverberate in a very bad way upstate.  Or, does that not matter, because we are mostly white?  

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by: robinia @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 16:23:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Coaching from progressives? (0.00 / 0)

Exactly which seats/electeds are you referring to?

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by: disco @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 21:22:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

it seems to me... (4.00 / 1)

that there's a good way to navigate this situation, and many poor ways to try to ensure the Democrats are able to take control of the Senate.

The right way to look at, at least in my viewpoints, is as follows...

The Senators who feel they and their constituents may be taken for granted should be allowed to be fully heard. After all, the concerns of ALL citizens, including minorities who have traditionally been left out of the process, is a key aspect of our long-time civil rights struggle in this country. It seems perfectly legitimate for elected officials representing a substantial minority group that has traditionally been left out in the past to be allowed to at least fully air their grievances.

Perhaps recommitting to the specific issues of concern would also be appropriate, while pointing out that the Republican Party, especially nationally, but also in New York, has not been very sensitive to the interests of the Latino community and, at least on the national level, has been out-and-out insensitive and disrespectful, in fact.

A comparison, issue-by-issue as to where the Democratic Party of this state stands compared to Republicans seems like another part of the equation.

The Democrats would be wise to reiterate their longstanding sensitivity to the viewpoints of ALL citizens, including the Hispanic community, unlike the Republicans, who have tended to represent only certain constituencies and elites, even shamelessly playing groups against each other politically.

In addition, some key committee and/or sub-committee assigments might be in order, and appropriate for legislators representing large numbers of Hispanic constituents. That is hardly anything new in politics. If we are to be a big tent, even the Democrats, who have been much more receptive to all groups than the Republican party, still need to show they are willing to continue to expand our "tent" further.

And, of course, there are also some practical incentives that might be discussed with these Senators: Progressives throughout this country and in this state have been resurgent, in terms of fundraising abilities of late, in part because of grassroots and netroots organizing efforts in recent years. A recommitment to assist all members of the Democratic caucus of the State Senate, in terms of fundraising, might also be in order.

Simultaneously, it would seem to me that there might be some Republican Senators receptive to some of the the same types of messages as mentioned above, especially if they want to maintain some of their "clout," by switching parties (to either Democrat, or even just Independent status, as long as they agree to caucus with Democrats).

Just some thoughts.

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by: paco @ Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 16:04:26 PM UTC