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To Cut, Cap Or Tax: Addressing New York's Budget And Tax Issues

by: robert.harding

Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 09:25:13 AM EST


Five months ago, Governor David Paterson and the four leaders from the New York State Legislature held a press conference I described at the time as a "dysfunctional press conference for a dysfunctional legislature." It was entertaining to watch because of the bickering, but the feeling of nothing getting done was there and it wasn't a good feeling. This state has a lot of issues, especially when it comes to the budget and addressing property taxes. This is a time when bipartisanship should be on display in Albany.

The same can be said for today, as Robinia documented earlier. The constant all fight and no action behavior in Albany is getting us nowhere.

The budget crisis we have in New York is a serious problem. We also have a serious issue with property taxes that has led to more divisiveness and less action. So what do we need to do? What do we do to address these issues? Here are some ideas based on "To Cut, To Cap or To Tax?"

WHAT TO CUT: TAXES. Cutting spending like Governor Paterson wants to cut spending won't solve any problems. In fact, it will just create more problems for us that we would have to address sooner rather than later. But cutting taxes would help, especially if those tax cuts target the middle-class like they should. That will help boost New York's economy. A tax cap is not an answer. A tax cap looks like a great solution, but it really won't do anything except tell municipalities how far they can raise taxes. That's all the tax cap will do. So cutting property taxes is a must. Implementing a circuit breaker in New York will help, but we also need to look at a complete makeover of how we tax our citizens here in New York.

WHAT TO CAP: SPENDING. Cutting spending will only create more problems. So why not meet at the middle? Instead of annual hikes in spending or drastic cuts, how about a spending cap? This is where capping can make a difference. With the renovated tax system we hope to create, we need to implement a much better system for spending New York's taxpayer dollars. Instead of looking to us - the taxpayer - for money, the government should treat their finances like any family. They need to think long and hard about how much they are bringing in and, in turn, how much they should be spending.

WHO TO TAX: MILLIONAIRES. The facts about a millionaires tax are known. A millionaires tax can work and will produce precious revenues here in New York. In this economic climate, millionaires are the ones that can afford it. A millionaires tax has been tried in other states with great success. In other states, more jobs have been created and the number of wealthy people has actually increased. Not only that, but more revenues have been created. New York needs more revenue, but not at the expense of middle-class taxpayers who need a reprieve from high taxation.

This is what the New York State Legislature and Governor Paterson should be addressing. Taxes in New York are out of control and lead to young people and hardworking New Yorkers leaving the state in favor of a better economic environment. Drastic spending cuts will create more problems but if we continue to raise spending levels every year, it will also create problems for us. That is where a spending cap can be beneficial. And making millionaires pay their fair share only makes sense.

Maybe January will be a different story. These "leaders meetings" are relatively useless, but it also showed why New Yorkers voted for a Democratic state senate earlier this month. It was and is time for change. Let's hope they mean it come January.

robert.harding :: To Cut, Cap Or Tax: Addressing New York's Budget And Tax Issues
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it's going to be very tough for states (4.00 / 3)
Which is why I also think that Krugman's suggestion that the federal government -- which has a lot more wiggle room here -- give some aid to states to help fill budget gaps.  

if the feds were to give us all we needed (4.00 / 1)
 - that would be one less month of our glorious occupation of iraq.

oh, wait.

TODAY is day one. It always is.


[ Parent ]
that puts it in perspective (4.00 / 1)
One thing I find very interesting about the current economic mess nationally is that it's the economists (DeLong, Krugman, etc.) who are saying extreme measures are needed, while the pundits talk about the need for austerity.  Quite a reversal.  

[ Parent ]
How it is (0.00 / 0)
Economists across the board think that it is best to be cautious and frugal during boom times (fiscal austerity), and borrow to cushion the effects of vicious circles in bust times.  And, pundits (who make their living going with the zeitgeist) always want to be profligate during a boom and penny-pinching during a bust.

The key here is to NOT compare macroeconomics to your own home budget or business budget.  It is not just the same thing, but bigger.  Fiscal policy in a downturn should be counter-cyclical-- SPEND (and in boom times, we should save and invest for a rainy day, rather than blowing it all on cutting the taxes of the wealthy).

Trouble is, Paterson does not have much wiggle room because Pataki gave the money he should have collected in the boom back to wealthy taxpayers.  And, it is totally unclear that Paulson gets the point at all, no matter how many times Barney Frank and Sheila Baer explain it to him....


[ Parent ]
I'm not comparing... (0.00 / 0)
Macroeconomics to the home budget. I would never do such a thing, especially as someone who used to major in economics and knows the difference. But I will compare how families are behaving in these tough times to how the government should be behaving. They shouldn't just carry on like nothing is wrong. They should be worried because what they do affects us all. Just like I must be disciplined when paying the bills I need to pay the government should show some common sense in its approach.

I don't agree with these spending cuts Governor Paterson has proposed and some of the more drastic proposals that some Republican senators and state senate candidates proposed as well. Cutting spending solves nothing, except now you leave certain groups in the state out to dry. On top of that, you have citizens paying high tax bills when they don't have their own wiggle room. So where do you turn?

The millionaires. They have the money, even though they may have been hit by the Wall Street disaster. People have said that if you tax them, they will leave. I doubt that, especially since New York City is the financial capital of this country. They could move elsewhere to live, but they do business here. They have to. It's where the action is. But I doubt they will move and I doubt other rich people will move either. This is no time to move, especially during these economic times.  


[ Parent ]
millionaire tax (0.00 / 0)
What sources do you recommend for reading about how a millionaire tax would work?  Has Krugman written about it?  Brad DeLong?  Dean Baker? (Or some other good writer I haven't heard of.)  

[ Parent ]
Here's some (4.00 / 1)
Stiglitz's letter to Paterson:
http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/St...

and also this:

http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/10...
(which was written during the LAST recession...)

and also this:
http://www.workingfamiliespart...

...and on the federal role in helping us along (NYC version):
http://www.gothamgazette.com/a...


[ Parent ]
to be clear (0.00 / 0)
States just don't have that much wiggle room to spend during a recession.  They can have their bonds downgraded, and that can be catastrophic.  And that's just one example of the fiscal constraints they face.

I'm just talking about what the federal government should be doing here. And one of the things they should be doing is helping states.    


[ Parent ]
Aid is nice... (4.00 / 1)
But it is a band-aid. The feds could decide one year to give us aid and then the next say they can't afford to do it. Ultimately some restraint has to be shown. I don't believe cutting is the same as restraint, but some fiscal discipline is in order.

In my view, we don't need aid from the federal government. As Phillip said, ending the Iraq War would be a nice reprieve. But aid won't get to the root of the problems here. Aid will just cover them up, ergo, band-aid.

We need to cut property taxes, institute a millionaires tax and cap spending. Spending can't continue to go up at the rate it is now with the lack of a revenue stream we have. That is where the millionaires tax comes in. That is estimated to bring in billions, making that budget shortfall evaporate in a very short amount of time.  


[ Parent ]
Nope (0.00 / 0)
This is a national crisis that will result in a loss of about 10% of jobs in the financial services sector in NYC, the national capital of our financial services industry.  Plus lost bonuses and reduced income for those who are left.  It is entirely appropriate for the feds to move to support the state, it's a situation quite analogous to what happened after 9-11 in that way.

Read Stiglitz on the Fiscal Policy Institute's home page.  The issues that you cite about NYS finance are correct in general-- and we do need to address them.  But, fiscal restraint during recessions is a big mistake. Of course, Paterson has little choice, he can only work with the money he has now or can get.  There is a big-time role for the feds in this-- and Obama's economic team will see that and respond.  Bush's team knows, but is ideologically opposed to government action, and so is giving the cash to our businesses rather than directly to our government, which would be a much more efficient and effective approach.


[ Parent ]
When I say fiscal restraint... (0.00 / 0)
I am talking about moving forward. Robinia, if we are spending A LOT more than we are taking in, what happens? A $12 billion deficit is what happens. I am not calling for across-the-board spending cuts. Yes, that would be the big mistake you are talking about.

Again, I have read Stiglitz. You are preaching to the choir about Stiglitz. Stiglitz is my economic God and I have read him endlessly since I was in college. But let's think about this: Stiglitz says to keep spending but to tax millionaires. Why did he say that Robinia? Because if you are spending money, the money to cover that has to come from somewhere. That's why Stiglitz is a proponent of the millionaires tax.

Paterson was told by Stiglitz not to cut spending (I agree with that) and to raise taxes on millionaires (I'm for that too, as indicated in the post). So I'm not the one that needs to listen to the economists. Our governor would be the one that needs the guidance.  


[ Parent ]
I like different language... (0.00 / 0)
The idea is to try to speak so that people understand the importance of not cutting jobs in a recession.  Of course, we are not able to spend more than we bring in, except through borrowing.  Sometimes (like now) borrowing should be considered, although, as noted elsewhere, we need to watch our bond ratings.

A "cap" is a blunt instrument.  "Restraint" is a bad term to use during a recession.  We should be working methodically to ID the areas we can safely defer spending, or, especially when we are talking about capital purchases, not buy at all.  And selling assets is very appropriate.  I really like Malcolm Smith's approach to finding areas to cut.


[ Parent ]
The financial services jobs aren't gone forever. (0.00 / 0)
There's still the same amount of banking to be done.

[ Parent ]
No, really, I don't think there is (0.00 / 0)
Part of what we are experiencing is that a speculative market was built up that was unsustainable, and it is in collapse.  Don't have the figures handy, but the trading in CDOs and CDSs was relatively insignificant in the 1990s, then ballooned to several times world GDP by last year.  

Financial services also have not remained stable in terms of the percentage of total profits that go to them-- going from under 10% of total profits in the 1990s to close to 30% (if I am remembering this correctly-- I'm sorry, just don't have time to look it up right now).

The world needs for us to cut back on financial services jobs, as well as scale way back on top-management salaries and bonuses.  That will mean less income tax for NYS, but it is the right thing.


[ Parent ]
what they should do (4.00 / 1)
You write "The feds could decide one year to give us aid and then the next say they can't afford to do it."

That's exactly what they should do.  And a band-aid is exactly what is needed.  There may be long-term structural problems with the NYS budget, but they are certainly not as dire as the short-term problems stemming from the financial crisis.  The aid would be an emergency measure.

I recommend reading Krugman and Stiglitz on this.  They spell it out very well.  


[ Parent ]
A couple of things... (0.00 / 0)
First off, don't tell me what to read. I have read Stiglitz. I wrote about Stiglitz when he sent the letter to Paterson. Stiglitz recommended the millionaires tax instead of spending cuts. Paterson went with the spending cuts. You and I both have clearly listened to Stiglitz. Paterson has not. That is a problem.

Also, band-aids are short-term relief. There's no maybe in regard to long-term structural problems with the budget. There are long-term problems. The sooner we address that, the better. I never said band-aids were a bad thing. It's a nice bit of short-term relief. But if we keep spending while losing revenues, where do we end up in five years? How about 10 years? Or 20 years? We need to address the problems of the present while being mindful of the future. We aren't doing that right now.


[ Parent ]
it's important to distentangle (0.00 / 0)
The short term and the long term.  They're two very issues.   The short term is catastrophic, the long term much less so.  I'm not sure why you object to recommendations for sources of information.    

[ Parent ]
Structural reform (4.00 / 1)
I'm wondering if the current financial crisis is enough incentive to look at a couple of significant structural reforms:
  1. A unicameral legislature. When the Senate was elected on a non-proportional basis (like the US Senate) you could argue that there was a good reason for having more than one chamber in the legislature. Now, not so much. I think the state would be better served by having a single chamber that's somewhat larger than the current Assembly (so that each member is representing fewer constitutents).
  2. Eliminating one level of local government. In most of the country (including NC, where I grew up), you either live in an incorporated municipality or in an unincorporated part of a county. There's no concept of "town". We could eliminate one whole level of taxing authority by eliminating towns and consolidating services.

These aren't small changes, but it's not a small crisis.

--- Mike Jones

Interesting thoughts... (0.00 / 0)
Your first point is a very interesting thought and not the first time I have heard that. However, a unicameral legislature would have its drawbacks. Plus, you would have complaints from upstate that a unicameral legislature puts too much power in the hands of downstate. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what would happen.

Our bicameral legislature is just fine. They just need to implement the Brennan Center recommendations. That's the first step to becoming more efficient and functional.

I'm a supporter of consolidation. I live in a county where the concept hasn't been well-received. We have four villages, ten towns and a county government. I found it funny that my county is supposedly run by Republicans (you know, the party of smaller government) and yet they refuse to sign on to this idea. Sure, they have done some rather small and insignificant things to consolidate. But we need major reform in that area.

I don't see the need for towns either. But in a county like mine where we have 10 of them, that gives you 10 different employers. That means 10 different municipalities will have to let people go. And that's the part they don't want go forward with.  


[ Parent ]
Reform... (0.00 / 0)
Plus, you would have complaints from upstate that a unicameral legislature puts too much power in the hands of downstate. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what would happen.

I don't disagree with that assessment, but I'd point out to anyone who says that that both our current houses are (and are required by the Constitution to be) elected based on proportional representation. Any state legislative body is going to put more power where the most people live.
I don't see the need for towns either. But in a county like mine where we have 10 of them, that gives you 10 different employers. That means 10 different municipalities will have to let people go. And that's the part they don't want go forward with.

Yep, you put your finger directly on the enormous stumbling block. Everybody says we have too much government, but it always seems to turn out that they mean everybody else has too much government, but theirs is Just Fine, Thanks. Sigh.

--- Mike Jones

[ Parent ]
Legislature and consolidation (0.00 / 0)
I don't disagree with that assessment, but I'd point out to anyone who says that that both our current houses are (and are required by the Constitution to be) elected based on proportional representation. Any state legislative body is going to put more power where the most people live.

I didn't say that the argument was correct or just. But that is the argument you will hear. See it is different when one house has 150 members and the other has 62. But if you went with one house you would have a legislature that some people (not me) would argue holds certain interests above others.

Yep, you put your finger directly on the enormous stumbling block. Everybody says we have too much government, but it always seems to turn out that they mean everybody else has too much government, but theirs is Just Fine, Thanks. Sigh.

It's that mixed in with people who are willing to consolidate as long as it's not their department that gets consolidated. I have been told more than once that there are people who support consolidation as long as it doesn't happen in their municipality. In order to get consolidation moving, you need leaders who are willing to consolidate their municipality first. Maybe that will lead to more stepping up to the plate.  


[ Parent ]
unicameral (0.00 / 0)

Plus, you would have complaints from upstate that a unicameral legislature puts too much power in the hands of downstate. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what would happen.

That's certainly true and it goes to the heart of a lot of the political dysfunction in the state.  The upstate/downstate political divide distracts voters from paying attention to what's going in Albany.  And it makes reform more difficult.    


[ Parent ]
It is a distraction... (0.00 / 0)
And the Republicans have used it to their advantage. There are a plethora of reasons why I oppose a unicameral legislature. I don't think our bicameral legislature is a lost cause. I just think we need to reform it so that it's functional. Once we do that, there will be a very clear difference from the past.  

[ Parent ]
Economic crisis, political reforms (0.00 / 0)
The financial/economic crisis is national-- and global-- and should mostly be addressed at the national and international level. That's where the economy and the regulatory tools to deal with it are-- not in Albany.

This entire discussion, and post, have been conflating NYS's underlying political and budgetary issues-- which the new legislature should and will address in an orderly fashion-- with an emergency response to our financial/economic crisis.  The emergency response actually should be handled by the feds, and it is really tough that we are being stuck with it to deal with on the state level.  That said, it is both difficult and unusual to cut this year's budget this late in the year... not all that surprising that they could not or would not do it.  It would be utterly impossible to make sweeping reforms that require amendments to our constitution as an emergency response-- that only happens in military dictatorships and fascist regimes, and it is very destabilizing.

We need to be sure to not over-react.  See this clip from Democracy Now (Naomi Klein), posted by Danger Democrat, to get a better understanding of how the Bush administration may be using the "emergency" to encourage massive, and not necessarily prudent, changes.  If you are familiar with Ms. Klein's "Shock Doctrine," you will understand how a sense of emergency can be utilized to squelch dissent, or even reasonable study and debate by decisionmakers.


[ Parent ]
1 yes, 2 no (0.00 / 0)
On #1, I've never heard a good justification of why we have two houses.  The only difference is size of districts and who did the gerrymandering.  If there was a better story, I might take a bicameral legislature more seriously.

On #2, the main consolidations (or breakups, or redrawing lines) that would actually save money are in schools, not in counties or towns.  Much of what counties do is dispense state-mandated services on a local basis.  Towns and villages have control over land use, and I'd much rather see that stay that way.

On Long Island, there are huge towns and villages that really should become cities, and there are all kinds of details among the levels worth re-examining.  I don't see much value in a counties-only approach though, and can't imagine it would be popular upstate, where population patterns actually fit the town/village/city model.


[ Parent ]
Good suggestions Mike. (0.00 / 0)
I think the timing is especially good to float the unicameral idea given the growing prospects for similarity of the leadership of both houses in the wake of the most recent election (assuming the three amigos come to their senses).

I'd also suggest the need for the elimination of more than just one layer of local government here in the Empire-Building State.  The proliferation of autonomous taxing jurisdictions is downright nuts in NY -- especially given the unwillingness of our leaders to impose any meaningful constraints (i.e., caps) on the tax levying powers of these entities.  Unfortunately, the entrenched parochialism seems to stand in the way of even the most modest reform proposals despite our darkening dire straits.

Woe is us unless we somehow get a major infusion of political courage in the State Capitol soon.


[ Parent ]
one other thing about taxes (4.00 / 1)
It's often said that taxes hurt the NYS economy and drive jobs out.  I tend to agree with that assessment.  

It's interesting, though, that the downstate economy has, until recently, been doing quite well, while upstate has been doing very badly, given that there are extra taxes in the city (the NYC tax).

Is this because the overall tax burden is still higher upstate, despite the city tax, because of higher property taxes? (I don't know the answer.) Or is it the case that New York City is essentially a unique environment that thrives even in the presence of taxes that would drive jobs out of just about any other environment?    


Taxes upstate versus downstate... (4.00 / 1)
I remember seeing two different charts a year ago that told the story. According to this chart, Westchester County's residents had the highest average tax burden based on taxes paid than anyone else in the country. But Wayne County had the highest tax burden when measuring the tax burden based on tax rate.

In upstate, our tax burden can best be described by high tax rates, while downstate's tax burden can best be described by high tax payments made. There is a huge difference between the two.  


[ Parent ]
thanks -- that's interesting (0.00 / 0)
One thing I realize I forgot is sales tax.  And that falls disproportionately on the poor and middle-class.  It would be very interesting to see a detailed break down of this.  

[ Parent ]
Here's a link to the chart... (0.00 / 0)
but note that the upstate NY property tax burdens expressed as a percent of property value are high because property values are relatively low in several of these counties:

http://www.orps.state.ny.us/re...

Also note that Niagara (not Wayne) was the top County in the Country when the Tax Foundation last produced these data, which actually are based only on Counties above a certain size (not all Counties in the US).

NYC residential property taxes are relatively low because of its classified system, which greatly subsidizes residential properties at the expense of non-residential property owners (not just because of its personal income tax).


[ Parent ]
thanks (0.00 / 0)
That's just property tax, though.  I'm curious how this shakes out when you throw in the city tax in NYC and sales tax.  

[ Parent ]
It's a very complicated business (4.00 / 1)
Individual income tax varies massively (thanks to our IRS codes and their ever-changing loopholes), and sales taxes are not actually recorded except in aggregate-- and there is no way to separate out how much of the aggregate is paid by visitors as opposed to residents.

Additionally, much of the property tax burden on business interests is actually abated (given a tax break) in both upstate and downstate, so, the nominal rates are not really much of a guide to what businesses actually pay.

Obfuscate, obfuscate.  Did you see my earlier comment about "shadow government"?  Well, who pays what taxes in NY is about as knowable as who has how much money in hedge funds, and what they are investing in.  Grand system, eh?  Hope the Chinese want to keep funding it.


[ Parent ]
Eliminate Authorities (4.00 / 2)
Real New York State Authorities:

Overcoat Development Corporation - does what you might expect - lures overcoat merchandisers to NY.

Olympic Regional Development Authority - Just in case Vancouver suddenly gives up

Port Authority Trans-Hudson Corporation Transitcenter, Inc. - who the fuck knows

New York Racing Association - Runs 3 horse racing tracks for no apparent reason

United Nations Development Corporation - We finished the damn building 56 years ago!

Faculty-Student Association of SUNY at Stony Brook Incorporated - clearly, this is a governmental need.

Agriculture and New York State Horse Breeding Development Fund - Again, why?

World University Games Corporation - These happened in 1993

Ogdensburg Crescent Mall Development Corporation - This was built in the 1970s

New York State Thoroughbred Breeding Development Fund + New York State Thoroughbred Racing Capital Investment Fund - more horse racing authorities, 'cus why the fuck not?

Every one of these has a Salaried Board and a budget.
And no one seems to care.


yikes (0.00 / 0)
This stuff is amazing.  

[ Parent ]
Yep. (0.00 / 0)
You know how they have been saying that all the funky stuff in the financial crisis has been going on in the "shadow banking sector"?  Well, NYS has an amazingly large structure of "shadow government authorities."

The NYS Throroughbred Breeding Development Fund actually gets a 2% off the top take from all horse-betting in NYS.  Worse than the friggin' bookie!


[ Parent ]
simply amazing (0.00 / 0)
You all have opened my eyes.  

[ Parent ]
I Figured out one of them! (0.00 / 0)
Port Authority Trans-Hudson Corporation Transitcenter, Inc. = PATH TransitCenter = A company owned by NYS that is part of PATH and does work with MetroCards etc - in cities across the country. Like the San Fransisco trolley line.

Glad we own that.


[ Parent ]
Hey, there we go (0.00 / 0)
Let's sell it to San Francisco and get some cash!

[ Parent ]
A great suggestion AG (4.00 / 1)
And let's not forget to pull the plug on one of the more recent entities filling a much needed void in the Public Authorities Law:

The Albany Convention Center Authority

Clearly a luxury we can't afford.


[ Parent ]
what makes the math add up? (0.00 / 0)
Lots to agree with here: millionaires tax, federal assistance, preserving jobs, but what makes the numbers work? If the gap is $12 to $15 billion next year out of an $80+ billion dollar state funds budget (that is, excluding the money we already get from the feds) will capping spending coupled with a millionaires tax be enough especially if you want to cut other taxes? The budget that passes has to be balanced according to the State constitution.  We all know the feds can and do run a deficit which is one reason people like Krugman advocate so strenuously for them to pony up.  Truth is, to get through the next two years we'll need taxes (yes, please clean up the state income tax and make it more progressive), either give backs by the public employee unions or job cuts, asset sales and cuts or freezes in most spending programs.  The feds coming through will makes cuts less deep and any general tax increases more moderate. In the case of spending cuts, lets not do those across the board because we want to maintain services those not able to get by in these tough times.

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