the albany project

behind that door are three five men in a room...



About
The Albany Project seeks to return New York State Government to its rightful owners - the people.

Getting Started at the Albany Project

Resources
- Searchable Senate Pork Data (2004-2005) - On-line

- Searchable Senate Pork Data (2004-2005) - Downloadable PDF File

- Searchable Senate Pork Data (2003-2004) - Downloadable PDF File

- Assembly 2002-2006 and Senate 2005-2006 Pork Spreadsheet

-What Is "Spotlight" And How Do I Use It?

New York Blogwire



This belongs to you. Take it back...

2012 Congressional Map: An Alternative

by: BingChester

Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 20:05:41 PM EST


(More maps. Where's yours? - promoted by phillip anderson)

After Amherst Guy's diary and map on the subject, I wanted to offer my own idea about a re-districting plan.  Here we go:

BingChester :: 2012 Congressional Map: An Alternative
These are the major changes.  I'm not going in-depth on some of the small shifts we'll need to maintain population equity.  Here's the way I deal with some of the previously discussed issues:

I eliminate NY-26 and NY-22.  Hinchey's district is horribly drawn and should be eliminated.  

I give most of the eastern part of his district to NY-20, other than Newburgh and Orange County (which are merged back into NY-19 and the rest of Orange).  

I give the Binghamton and Delaware parts of that district to Arcuri, who already represents some of Broome.  

Most important, I put Ithaca into Massa's district.  Ithaca gives him a great base, which allows Massa's district to expand into Wyoming County and other Republican areas in the southern part of NY-26.  

The rest of NY-26 is merged into Slaughter's district.

One major complaint about my methodology is the lack of even population centers.  Let me make a few points on population:

1) My estimate is that the New York downstate regions (Westchester/Rockland + NYC + Long Island) hold about 13 million of the close to 18 million.  The Albany metropolitan area is another million or so, which leaves 5 million for the rest of upstate.  My map has 6 "pure" upstate districts.  That would approximate out into 833k per district, while Amherst Guy's quote was 770k or so.  The old NY-20 takes part of this population, so we're relatively close to the target number.  We can tweak certain things in the north-eastern districts to get the right population spread.  The numbers are possible but we have to agree on what our numbers are.  I estimate Upstate (minus the Albany metro area) at 5 million, not 8 million.

2) You just can't justify eliminating seats downstate.  The population vacuum in New York came from upstate New York.  It is absurdly unfair to punish Long Island or Westchester or even New York City for upstate's population loss.  Sorry guys, it's not an option.  

Poll
Who Drew the Better Map?
BingChester
Amherst Guy
You both stink!

Results

Tags: , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Your poll is incomplete (4.00 / 3)
It should include an "I favor Spitzer's nonpartisan apportionment committee of experts" option.  There are more than a few of us here.  I know, we are just no fun, eh?  

chester (0.00 / 0)
I THINK your map would be easyer to understand if you use the one like amherst guy with county out lines

Massa's district (0.00 / 0)
I think what you've done with Massa's district makes more sense. It's hard to tell from the map (I love the colors, but my eyes aren't good enough to make out the fine details), but is Rochester split into 3 seats? That's hard on Rochester.

Too big (0.00 / 0)
I actually think that you probably made it too big-- Ithaca has a goodly chunk of population, as do the areas of Rochester that you expanded his district into.  Not enough population loss in the rural areas to offset that.  

That said, the little chunk of Western Tompkins Co. that you left in Arcuri's district does not belong there-- it is nearly as progressive as the Ithaca City area... i.e., my township there in that excluded box gave Arcuri some of his best support electorally (he won about 3 to 1 here), but they all won't speak to (or give money to) him because they can't stand his blue-dog aspect.  No reason to separate us from the rest of the area that we live and work in-- Ithaca, Elmira, Watkins Glen.  


[ Parent ]
I think it's like (0.00 / 0)
1.1 Million people as drawn, while Slaughter's is like 950,000 people.

[ Parent ]
Not really (0.00 / 0)
The city of Rochester stays in the merged 28/26th district.  The outer areas are part of Massa's district.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Maybe I'm reading it wrong (0.00 / 0)
.... but I am seeing additional suburban Monroe towns added to Massa's district beyond the ones he already has. Which did you intend?  And, how did you figure to offset the addition of the Ithaca population, plus Livingston and Wyoming?

[ Parent ]
Right (0.00 / 0)
The southern-suburban areas of Monroe were part of the 26th.  Those areas are now part of Massa's district, while the northern areas and the city itself are all part of Slaughter's district.  Greece, for example, would be part of Slaughter's district.  

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
A winner! (0.00 / 0)
Any map that moves southeastern Rockland County away from Eliot Engel is a winner in my book!

"Generic comment signature."

I think you made the 29th into the most expensive district in the Country (0.00 / 0)
And your core assumptions are incorrect.

There will not be 833K people in a CD.  I believe the number will be lower, not higher than 770.  Further, as a matter of legal approval from DOJ, the districts in the state have to be roughly the same average size in population - a couple of percent at most off the average is OK.

My argument with Amherst Guy's map was that it is split a lot of counties - but it is hard to challenge his core mathematical assumptions.  Yours are a little off.


Right (0.00 / 0)
Amherst Guy and I started with different premises.  My premise that the numbers CAN work if take 2 seats out from upstate/Western New York.  So my numbers are not as dead-on as his.  I'm more concerned with logical drawing; keeping counties together, eliminating the most oddly skewed districts, etc.  

That may not be a fair premise, but the numbers are going to vary and be dealt with by statisticians, so I'll let them deal with the nitty-gritty details.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Due Respect (0.00 / 0)
But I think you drew lines that fit your premise, but not the math.  If you take the current estimated population of the state (19,297,729) and divide that by 27 (the expected number of seats NY will have after reapportionment), you get 714,731.

If you multiply that by four, it's (2,858,923).  The combined CURRENT estimated populations of what I consider WNY (Orleans, Genesee, Niagara, Erie, Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Monroe, Wyoming, Allegany, Livingston, Steuben, Wayne, Ontario, Yates, Schuyler, Seneca, Chemung, and Caugua) total 2,865,168.

That's apples to apples, and pretty danged close, if you ask me.  It's close to Amherst Guy's math, if not his exact map.


[ Parent ]
Indeed (0.00 / 0)
And, IMHO, Cayuga County does not belong in any WNY grouping-- it may be rural and conservative, but its labor market/economy are connected to Syracuse-- and media market, too.  It is Central NY.

Tompkins, on the other hand, could easily-- maybe should, if you are looking for bluing influence-- go w/WNY.  If you do switch Tompkins for Cayuga, the total goes up even more.

The loss of population is scattered throughout upstate, although, if there were a centroid of population loss, I'd think it would be somewhere near Little Falls, or South of there.  That's guessing.


[ Parent ]
much as I like Massa (0.00 / 0)
I think he's too conservative for Ithaca.

Hinchey is a perfect fit, he's consistently one of the most progressive people in Congress, and he can do that.

The problem with lumping Ithaca in with Massa's district is that most of that district (apart from Monroe Co.) is very conservative, and even a democrat who is relatively progressive is more conservative than Hinchey.

Also, it seems Ithaca has once again just been randomly lumped in with a district that is geographically distant.

Seems like Ithaca and Tompkins County should remain a unit and be part of a district that is contiguous to it...


Look at Hinchey's district (0.00 / 0)
Agree with you and Maurice's progressive stands, and Ithacans do truly love him for that-- although that is him personally, not the make-up of the district (aside from Ithaca).  But, the district as configured currently does not put Ithaca in a district that is contiguous with anything near it.  Most of Tioga County to the South (where it connects to the rest of the district) is in Arcuri's district, there is just this little 11-mile-wide band of rural farmland that connects Hinchey's Ithaca dot with the Binghamton-Johnson City-Endicott area, over an hour's drive away and in a different economy and labor market. Only Southern Broome County is in Hinchey's distric-- the Northern part (only, say, 45 minutes drive from Ithaca) is in Arcuri's district, too.

As it stands now, most of suburban Ithaca is cut off and put in Arcuri's district, while the further suburbs outside Tompkins County, rural areas and small towns where many residents work in Ithaca, are in Massa's or Arcuri's district.  Hinchey has the clout to keep Ithaca and Cornell if he wants, and is not retiring.  But, the district is a gerrymander that does not serve a mostly-blue delegation well at all.  Given that the Ithaca area should be kept more or less whole, and connected to contiguous areas, the choice is between Arcuri and Massa.  I live here, and worked for both, and I can assure you that my progressive friends were working very hard for Massa.... even though he is not their Rep.... and ignoring Arcuri (but voting for him where they could).  It's that blue-dog thing.

And, don't let Massa's demeanor and background fool you.  He is quite progressive, in a way that will not alienate his constituency.


[ Parent ]
Agreed on both points (0.00 / 0)
1) Massa is quite progressive.  He's in favor of single-payer, for example.  He was absolutely my number 1 candidate from the NY list this cycle.  

2) Hinchey's district is very silly.  Poughkeepsie and Kingston have almost nothing in common with Ithaca and Binghamton.  

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
The Albany Project

Please take my Blog Reader Project survey.

Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Search




Advanced Search


NY blogs

Politics

10,000 Things
Adirondack Almanack
Buffalo Geek
Buffalo Pundit
Buffalo Stuff
Capitol Confidential
Daily Gotham
Daily Politics
Danger Democrat
Democracy in Albany
DMI Blog
DragonFlyEye
Empire Page
Empire Zone
Gothamist
Gotham Gazette
Gowanus Lounge
Group News Blog
Herkimer County Progressive
Intrepid Liberal Journal
Jason Gooljar
Joshing Politics
Left of the Hudson
Living In Dryden
Lost In The Ozone
McHugh Watch
Nassau GOP Watch
Nasty Letters
New York NewsLadder
NY-13
NYCO's Blog
onNYTurf
Peter King Watch
Planet Albany
Politicker NY
Politics on the Hudson
Reform NY
Rochester Turning
Room 8
Simply Left Behind
Skelos Watch
Soundpolitic
The Community Alliance
The Fighting 29th
The Robach Files
The Rural Patriot
Tom Reynolds Watch
Troy Polloi
Upstate 2050
Upstate Blog
Upstate Blue
Walsh Watch
WFP Blog

Think Tanks

Brennan Center for Justice Citizens Budget Commission
Citizens Union
Drum Major Institute
Fiscal Policy Institute
New Democracy Project
Progressive States
Taub Urban Research Center

Organizations

Citizen Action
Citizens for Better Government in New York
Common Cause
New York Citizens for Clean Elections
Progressive States Network

>
National Blogs

Politics

AmericaBlog
Billmon
Crooks and Liars
DailyKos
Digby
Eschaton
Firedoglake
MyDD
Open Left
Political Cortex
Senate Guru
Skippy
Swing State Project
Talk Left
Talking Points Memo
The Right's Field

LBAN Network

Agonist
All Spin Zone
AlterNet
AMERICAblog
American Street
ArchPundit
BAGNewsnotes
BartCop
Big Head DC
Blogging of the Pres
BlogACTIVE
Bluegrass Report
Bluegrass Roots
Blue Indiana
BlueJersey
Blue Mass. Group
BlueOregon
BlueNC
Bob Geiger
Booman
BRAD Blog
Brendan Calling
Buckeye State Blog
Burnt Orange Report
Calitics
Capitol Annex
Carpetbagger Report
Chris Floyd
Clay Cane
Cliff Schecter
Comments from Left Field
Confined Space
Corrente
Cotton Mouth
Crooks and Liars
culture kitchen
Cursor
Daily Gotham
Daily Kos
David Corn
Democrats.com
Dem Bloggers
Deride and Conquer
Democratic Underground
Digby
DovBear
Drudge Retort
Ed Cone
ePluribus Media
Eschaton
Ezra Klein
Feministe
Feministing
Firedoglake
Fired Up
First Draft
Frameshop
Greatscat!
Green Mountain Daily
Greg Palast
Hoffmania
Horse's Ass
Hughes for America
In Search of Utopia
Is That Legal?
Jesus' General
Jon Swift
Juan Cole
Keystone Politics
Kick!
KnoxViews
Las Vegas Gleaner
Latino Pundit
Lawyers, Guns and Money
Left Coaster
Left in the West
Liberal Avenger
Liberal Oasis
Loaded Orygun
Mahablog
Majikthise
Make Them Accountable
Matthew Yglesias
MaxSpeak
Media Girl
Michigan Liberal
Minnesota Campaign Report
Minnesota Monitor
MyDD
My Left Nutmeg
My Left Wing
My Two Sense
Nathan Newman
Needlenose
Nevada Today
News Corpse
News Dissector
Newshoggers
News Hounds
Nitpicker
Oliver Willis
onegoodmove
OpenLeft
PageOneQ
Pam's House Blend
Pandagon
People's Rep. of Seabrook
PinkDome
Politics1
Political Animal
Political Wire
Poor Man Institute
Prairie State Blue
Progressive Historians
Raising Kaine
Raw Story
Reno Discontent
Republic of T
Rhode Island's Future
Rochester Turning
Rocky Mountain Report
Rod 2.0
Rox Populi
Rude Pundit
Sadly, No!
Satirical Political Report
Seeing The Forest
Shakesville
SirotaBlog
SistersTalk
Skippy the Bush Kangaroo
Slacktivist
Smirking Chimp
SquareState
Suburban Guerrilla
Swing State Project
Talking Points Memo
Talk Left
Tapped
Taylor Marsh
Tattered Coat
Texas Kaos
The Albany Project
The Blue State
The Democratic Daily
The Hollywood Liberal
The Reaction
The Talent Show
This Modern World
Town Called Dobson
Turn Maine Blue
Uppity Wisconsin
Wampum
War and Piece
WashBlog
Watching the Watchers
West Virginia Blue
Young Philly Politics
Young Turks

A Responsible Plan to End the War in Iraq - Click here to add your support

Register to Vote: Rock the Vote, powered by Working Assets Wireless

blog radio

Subscribe in NewsGator Online

Subscribe in Rojo

Add the albany project RSS Feed to Newsburst from CNET News.com

Add to Google

Add to My AOL

Subscribe in FeedLounge

Add to netvibes

Subscribe in Bloglines

Add to Bitty Browser

Subscribe in NewsAlloy

Subscribe in podnova

Add to Pageflakes

Get the albany project in your inbox! Just enter your email address

Delivered by FeedBurner

____________________


Active Users
Currently 2 user(s) logged on.

Powered by: SoapBlox