We don't even qualify for the corruption contest?

Top ten for sure (0.00 / 0)

I live in Ohio now, as many of you know, and when I got to Columbus, I asked the county executive director a bunch of indirect questions about the local machine.

There isn't one. It would be essentially impossible under state law. Yet the Dems do more than OK here. Oh, and they don't fight, at least not in public.

The NYC machines might be dysfunctional (I laughed heartily when Phillip, who apparently has fallen off the face of the earth, described the Bronx machine a few weeks back), but they are still powerful in their territory. And as long as Steve Pigeon is not in prison, Upstate NY is still vulnerable to his reign of terror.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:04:52 AM UTC

I dunno (0.00 / 0)

If the charges are true, Blagojevich pretty much takes the cake.  Spitzer doesn't even come close.

No, actually on second thought, he's not the worst.  Philip Giordano (former mayor of Waterbury Conn) is the worst.

As for New York, it is quite corrupt, yet I can't imagine a Blagojevich situation happening here.  People that stupid and venal maybe tend to get weeded out because, I think, NY has genuine political talent.  And a great, great deal of money, which demands professionalism in one's corruption.  I don't think people like that get so far up the food chain.  But in Chicago I think all they know how to do is play hardball with each other.  If rumors are to be believed, Blagojevich only got nailed because someone was willing to play hardball harder than him.

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by: NYCO @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:08:03 AM UTC

You got it (4.00 / 1)

a great, great deal of money, which demands professionalism in one's corruption.

This means:
1) Many fewer of our corrupt pols actually get caught, so we don't have the rep that other states do
2) There are entire institutions built up to expedite the nuanced corruption-- take, for instance, the plethora of public authorities-- so that a goodly portion of our corruption is actually entirely legal, and couldn't even be prosecuted.

It still stinks, but, it is a much less obvious kind of stench... although methinks perhaps more poisonous.

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by: robinia @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:29:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I am curious (0.00 / 0)

to see what happens to NY's institutions, or rather supporting structures, of corruption when the money spigot gets turned off for a few years.  Do they die off, or do they just die back or mutate?

What happened to the structures of corruption during the Depression?  (and what were they?)

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by: NYCO @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:44:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

also (0.00 / 0)

We call these NY institutions "corrupt" because they clash with democratic ideals; yet, there seem to be rules of play.  Those who break those rules get punished (see: Michael Bragman).  They're not OUR rules - and sometimes not our laws - but there is definitely a byzantine pirates' code.

(Indeed I think that is the whole fascination of NY political blogging... seductive because we sometimes forget we're here to fight for Truth, Justice and the American Way...)

I don't think Chicago politics has the same institutions or the same rules of "order."  I think it is mostly just knives and guns.  

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by: NYCO @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:48:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yep. (0.00 / 0)

That's why Chicago/Illinois politics is described as "tough" while NYC/NYS politics is described as "slick."

As far as what happens to them in tough times, I presume that it will be more or less the same as what has happened in past recessions-- no increase in the basic welfare grant for decades, but taxes for connected corps keep getting cut (and less of a tax is the same thing as a check, as long as you make money and owe tax).  Note that they are still building a convention center in Albany despite this.  Looking at that Calculated Risk hotel investment chart, it looks as if hotels are being built on the public dime nationwide, despite decreasing demand for hotel rooms.

But, maybe it is all a plan: unable to pay their bills, perhaps welfare moms will start utilizing some of the older, less-well-maintained hotel rooms for uh, self-employment (or, if with pimp, small business) purposes.  And, there are always those per diem hotel funds for the legislators and their girlfriends-on-staff at the new swanky places.

Hmm.  Anybody building a hotel named after Chuck Rangel?  OK, call me cynical, but I think that NYS's welfare moms and their kids are "shovel-ready"-- and I am talking graves.  This system has its priorities ALL WRONG.  I wish it would change, but, it is looking like Suit-kote asphalt contractors (one well-connected firm) is about to cash in big-time in the Southern Tier.  What's on the gravy train in your 'hood?

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by: robinia @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 13:57:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oblique? (0.00 / 0)

What I am perhaps too obliquely trying to suggest is that the "rules" that apply stay in place-- nobody thinks we need to maintain the purchasing power of welfare grants, but the wheels that run the funding for economic development funds for hotel developers, legislative staffer girlfriends, and paving companies remain in place, no matter that we have an oversupply of hotels, legislative staffer girlfriends, and pavement to maintain.  Lots of bureaucratic public jobs riding on it all continuing-- that is a part of the secret of our high tax rates.  All these institutions of governmental slickness have clerical and managerial employment attached; they have unions and lobbyists in Albany.... and around we go again.

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by: robinia @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 14:21:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think if you talked to people from every state... (0.00 / 0)

You would find certain levels of corruption. It's all about to what extent that corruption goes.

One of the issues in Illinois is that their campaign finance system is very weak and enables corruption like this. (Note to Illinois lawmakers: You might want to fix that.) New York's system, while not the greatest, is still a system. There is wiggle room, but you would never see anything like what happened in Illinois.

We have our characters here in New York. I don't think we are top five material, but we could certainly be top ten.  

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by: robert.harding @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:13:40 AM UTC

quote from Blagojevich (0.00 / 0)

"I've got this thing and it's [expletive] golden, and, uh, uh, I'm just not giving it up for [expletive] nothing. I'm not gonna do it. And, and I can always use it. I can parachute me there."

(from TPM)

I'm not sure we can compete with this kind of corruption.  Maybe if we establish special Empire zones for corruption....

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by: Exile on Ericsson St. @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:25:27 AM UTC