Redistricting is "complicated"

I think the solution may be to give Assembly members who (4.00 / 3)

don't think that there is a problem a stiff primary challenge.  We can elect better Democrats, ones who are more committed to Democracy than maintaining their position, into many of these offices. 

---

by: JML @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 at 20:57:41 PM UTC

Barbara will likely have a primary challenge.... (4.00 / 1)

...She was responding to a likely primary challenger in the article (which can be accessed in full here).  Her possible challenger is an honorable man and a valued local party member, although significantly to the right politically of Barbara on most issues, so, perhaps a better representative of the rural Dryden area that he used to represent in the County legislature (before losing to a Republican) and the Cortland portion of Barbara's district, which is less liberal than the Ithaca/suburban Tompkins part.  Where Barbara is particularly interested in human services and agriculture (with fitting committee assignments), Mike (her likely challenger) is more interested in economic development, having served as the Chair of the local IDA (Industrial Development Agency-- the folks who do the tax abatement deals to bring new businesses into the area).  Mike is a male lawyer, which, lord knows, we don't have too few of in Albany.

I am pleased to see Mike bringing up issues for debate.  I think that is far more constructive than just complaining that Barbara hasn't changed Albany yet.  But, I am likely to take a lot more into consideration than just a candidate's position on how to make redistricting more fair.  And me, I always prefer a candidate who acknowledges that complicated things are complicated, and asks that the public be involved in trying to puzzle them out.

And then, there is that gender equity thing.  New York has a terrible record when it comes to women leaders in government. Compared to other states, women in leadership positions are rare, with the legislatures being the very worst branch.  According to research (available here), between 1998 and 2005, the paltry representation of women in the legislature (21.8% of total in 1998) increased by less than one percent.  That was, I think, Barbara.

Maybe we could help her come up with a way through this complicated redistricting mess to a workable, more fair, solution.  And, maybe we will just have to accept and acknowledge that districts drawn up by an independent commission or some such may well make it less likely that more progressive legislators will be elected to office in upstate places.  You win some, you lose some.  It's complicated.

---

by: robinia @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 00:29:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

reform not always progressive (4.00 / 2)

Robinia writes:

And, maybe we will just have to accept and acknowledge that districts drawn up by an independent commission or some such may well make it less likely that more progressive legislators will be elected to office in upstate places. You win some, you lose some. It's complicated.

I'd suggest that people who can't accept that districts drawn without partisan intent will cost us some progressive legislators aren't actually interested in reforming the legislature. Much of Upstate New York is thoroughly conservative.

I trust that New York State as whole, represented fairly, will move consistently in a liberal direction. Trying to force that by rigging Assembly districts (and vice-versa in the Senate) has brought us to the current stalemate, where there isn't much representation of any kind.

Designing districts is indeed complicated - it always is. The idea that districts should be drawn without regard to who will be elected from them is not.

---

by: simonstl @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 12:39:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yep. (4.00 / 1)

You are right, Simon.  There may, however, be some subtleties in how an independent commission is constituted and/or operates that can help protect the representation of minority communities (both communities of color, and communities of interest) in upstate, so that the pernicious upstate-downstate battles can cool some and allow us to work together better.  Tompkins County is progressive to the max, and it would be a shame to have that drowned in a sea of rural-upstate-standard, of which there is quite a lot available.

Should our district choose Mike Lane as a representative, I have every confidence that he would do an honorable job.  However, I am sure that a guy with Mike's life-perspective (never married, still living with Mom) might need help from active constituents like me to understand the issues facing the women in his district, in a way that Barbara does not.

---

by: robinia @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 12:51:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I was talking in the large (4.00 / 1)

I don't think Tompkins County is likely to get drowned out by upstate conservatism in any vaguely independent redistricting.

Its current three-way chopping into Republican State Senate districts demonstrates what it takes to gerrymander the county of being an effective player, and I certainly don't think that's feasible at the Assembly district level.  We may well have a Republican State Senate representative in something saner than the current model, but I don't think it would be an incumbency for life.

(Surrounding counties are becoming more blue in any case, and hopefully Tompkins can share some of what works for Democrats here with our neighbors.)

There are, to be certain, lots of subtleties in any redistricting.  It's hard for me, however, to imagine even a vaguely independent redistricting commission doing a worse job than the current situation.

I'm not sure why you keep needing to bring up Mike Lane, and complaining that he lives at home with his mother doesn't seem particularly, well, constructive. 

As much as I like Mike, and I'm very glad that he wrote the letter that provoked this non-response from Lifton, he's not the only person in the district who might consider challenging Barbara.  It's early yet, and this kind of pre-emptive attack feels very strange to me.

---

by: simonstl @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 14:16:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Spoke to Mike about it... (4.00 / 1)

I guess I am seeing Mike as a contender because I have spoken to him about it, and he challenged Barbara on this issue.  I'm NOT attacking him-- I'm actually saying really clearly that if he is chosen in a fair-fight primary, he will do an honorable job, and I will do my best to be a supportive committee member in the general election.  I have a lot of respect for Mike, even though he is to the right of me. 

I am trying to bring up another issue of world-view and experience, and what is and is not represented among our legislators.  I was a Fellow with the Center on Women in Government a few years back, and I was taught a lot about this.  For a blue state in particular, and one with fairly reasonable levels of representation of legislators of color, NYS's representation of women legislators is abyssmal. Barbara is Chair of the Legislative Task Force on Women's Issues.  I don't think Mike would be appropriate for that kind of post, and it is an important area to me. 

Details of a candidate's private life are and should be kept private; but, the general outlines are a part of the package.  The gory details of an individual's divorce are not pertinent, for instance, but, as per Newt Gingrich or Rudy, if a candidate has had a number of divorces, it is a safe bet that it has had an effect on his/her world-view.  If the main woman in your life is an older,  stay-at-home Mom, that, too, may give you a different perspective than some people on, say, the importance of day care or universal pre-K.  I have always found Mike to be courteous, polite, and fairly old-fashioned in his approach to women.  Barbara, on the other hand, "gets it" on women's issues-- hence, leadership post.

Now, as far as potential others, I am always happy when the voters have a choice and the debate is lively.  We have a lot of talented folks in this neck of the woods. I just haven't spoken to them about running for assembly at this point, so, the only likely challenger I know is Mike.

---

by: robinia @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 15:02:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Interesting discussion (0.00 / 0)

I think we have a similar thing going on here in the Syracuse area.  The city is split in half for the Senate, although we manage to have a Democrat sit in one of those seats.  Syracuse is the fifth biggest city in the state and our Democratic Senator represents a district that includes the very rural southeastern part of the county and Onieda county.  We should have one Senator for the whole city.  Even with gerrymandering, we managed to have a Dem in the more rural seat for years until she switched parties.  Then a split Conservative/Republican vote gave it back to the Dems the next term.  Even if there is no redistricting reform, the Repubs should just give it up and let us have our own Senator to speak for the city with one voice.

---

by: slothlax @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 23:00:22 PM UTC

That was Nancy Lorraine Hoffman, right? (0.00 / 0)

They promised her a Queendom of her very own for the switch.  Unlike other nearby states (Vermont, PA) that have very good Agritourism programs that help promote rural tourism while giving farm families an extra revenue stream.... in NY, the idea was to use the concept of Agritourism as a lu-lu for the luring of Nancy.  Nobody could be a part of the Ag and Mrkts program (and get the grants) unless they were in her district.  Eventually, it spread out a bit-- but, still ran through a planning office in her district.  Member items hidden in the Ag budget.  Cute.  She sure did deserve to lose, given the despicable behavior.  We need more female legislators, but, we need ethical standards, too.

One Senator for the City makes sense to me-- although somebody once told me there is some NYS law that says it is OK to split a city for a district, but not a town.  Don't really know.

---

by: robinia @ Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 23:47:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Some Towns are split in separate districts too. (4.00 / 1)

Even villages are split.  And some villages are split between two towns.

---

by: Scott in NJ @ Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 11:59:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Complicated Indeed (4.00 / 1)

I thought the tone of the Journal piece was very much "you just don't understand." It's an unfortunate tone to take when talking to the electorate, but it's one our Assemblyperson takes too often for my liking.

As for primary candidates, I suspect there may be many. And Republicans, too. It's an expensive race to run, but this is a vulnerable seat. Spitzer's challenge--"any viable candidate"--will mean there's money to run.

And as for Mike's not understanding women because he lives with his mother, I hope Robinia will think very hard about the message she's sending. Now THAT'S complicated. Plus, who's the real progressive--someone who calls for reform or someone who votes with the leader every single time, even on matters that clearly violate civil rights? Just askin'.

---

by: Curious @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 13:14:40 PM UTC

As long as this is becoming a local discussion... (0.00 / 0)

Please let me know which civil-rights-denying vote you mean?  I am quite interested in understanding the issues, as, I will be in a position not only to possibly endorse a candidate, but also answer questions from others in my neighborhood who know that I follow this stuff. I am very open to being convinced about who is the best candidate, and  have no predisposition to support an incumbent, beyond the obvious name-recognition factor.

As far as life-experience coloring a candidate's view of issues, I'll defend that concept generally.  And, also, the "being" versus "understanding" point. Many persons of color will tell you straight-up that having a representative of color is in no way the same as having a representative who "knows a lot about the struggles of people of color."  It is partly a matter of exposure, but, also, a matter of role-models for others. 

Now, life-experience and exposure comes in a lot of ways.  Had Mike, or some other candidate, spent years as a caseworker with single Moms, or as a day care center director, or a union organizer with nurses, he would have gained valuable direct insight into the issues women face in the modern work world.  He didn't-- if he had other direct experience with women or women's issues, who he lives with WOULD be less important.  Yesterday's Ithaca Journal was an exception; generally, women's issues get very little attention in the press.  If you don't have experience with them in your private life, you can think they don't exist.  Women's issues are very important to me. I want some evidence that a candidate has experienced what it means to be a working woman in today's world, either through being a working woman, or having a job, a longstanding volunteer commitment, or a personal (immediate family) connection. I apply this standard to all candidates, and Silda had a lot to do with why I campaigned for Spitzer (and Paterson, too-- I feel the same way about racial issues). So, if I am missing some way in which Mike has had that kind of direct contact that would inform him deeply about modern women's experiences, fill me in.  Otherwise, I think it is gap in his portfolio; which, of course, we would downplay if he won the primary.  He does have some strengths, which could be stressed.

Civil rights are important to me, as well as women's issues (often the two intersect).  So, tell me, where is my current rep falling short there?  I am in a position to apply pressure, I think.  Is there a bill to correct whatever situation this is about?  Number?

---

by: robinia @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 13:50:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Civil Rights (4.00 / 1)

It's a sore issue, but I can't support her support of the bill to lock up sexual predators who have fulfilled their prison terms. Who loses? The indigent, the mentally challenged, people of color. Pressure away, but you won't get anywhere. It's a safe vote, because the courts will overturn it.

As for Mike's home life, I think what you should consider is whether you're hinting about sexual preference when you make statements like the one you made. Certainly people have read it that way in the past. So be careful. That's all I'm saying.

I think Mike's growing up as part of a union family helps him with working woman issues. Other than that, I think you have to look at voting record rather than jumping to conclusions based on gender and home life. I think Bill Clinton was absolutely horrible with women in his private life and rather good for them in his public work.

---

by: Curious @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 17:09:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks. (0.00 / 0)

I appreciate your comments.  Never even ocurred to me that there would be a sexual-preference read on my comment-- but, now that you mention it, you are right.  I will be more careful in the future.  I'm a little likely to not imagine folks seeing things from a homophobic angle, 'cuz I live in a left-leaning place and have hung out with lots of GLBT folks for decades. That life-experience colors my view, alright ;-)

I also really agree with you about the "civil confinement" thing-- had been hoping for the best when Barbara initially responded that she "had to think more" about the issue; am disappointed that she did end up voting for it.  You are right, we can probably count on the courts to right that wrong eventually.... but it is really poor public education to have had the vote go down that way, with Spitz championing it and all.  Gives way the wrong impression about what parents should be on the look-out for (friends and relatives without jail records who want to spend lots of time alone with their kids, according to stats).

The law will probably be esp. bad on the poor and people of color, but, civil rights abuses threaten us all. Bad enough that they can lock me up and throw away the key by accusing me of being an "enemy combatant," but, now, maybe they can trump up child molestation charges, or put kiddie-porn on my computer, and I'm locked up for as long as their people say I am "sick." I'll be sure to register my displeasure with Barbara, although, I think you are right, it won't come up for a vote again anytime soon. We'll just be paying like crazy to keep these folks locked up.

---

by: robinia @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 18:09:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]