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Bigger, Better Bottle Bill Hearing Held Today

by: robert.harding

Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 15:40:54 PM EST


The Bigger, Better Bottle Bill is getting closer and closer to reality. Today, Senator Antoine Thompson, who serves as chairman of the Environmental Conservation Committee in the New York State Senate, held a public hearing on the bottle bill in Buffalo.

Upon entry to the hearing, you were greeted by a few people holding a variety of signs opposing the Bigger, Better Bottle Bill (BBBB). The signs read, "Don't take my job", "I am worth more than a nickel" and "Don't raise my prices." Inside the hearing, there were more of these signs, so opponents of the bottle bill were out in full force.

However, those who testified were largely in support of the bill. Among those who testified, Carol Ash - Commissioner of the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation in New York - expressed her support for expanding the bottle bill. Patrick Hooker, who heads the Department of Agriculture and Markets, did the same.

There were others who testified in support from many conservation groups who play an important role in the state. A few students even stepped up to the plate and announced their support for the legislation.

In all, there were 27 different witnesses who testified today. Out of those 27, 18 said that they favored expanding the bottle bill. Among those who were against expansion were owners of distribution companies, a Tops Markets district manager, management from Coca-Cola and Pepsi and Buffalo's NAACP head Frank Mesiah, who argued that the bottle bill's expansion would have a negative impact on the economically disadvantaged.

Those who testified in favor of the bottle bill discussed how the bill would have a positive effect on the environment while giving people an incentive to recycle their bottles of water, Gatorade and other non-carbonated beverages. According to one witness, non-carbonated beverages make up one-third of all bottles, yet bottles that hold those non-carbonated beverages make up two-thirds of the bottles that are littered.

The opponents of the bill highlighted two things: Handling fees and unclaimed deposits. Right now, beverage companies in New York get to keep unclaimed deposits that are estimated at $140 million a year. Under an expanded bottle bill, those unclaimed deposits would go up to $218 million, according to NYPIRG's figures. The bottle bill would require companies to return unclaimed deposits to the state, which is something that did not sit well with opponents, especially Coca-Cola and Pepsi.

One of the highlights came from a man who came in and sat down next to me with a huge plastic bag full of bottles and cans, along with a separate plastic bag with only a few bottles in it. He ended up testifying and he said that when the first bottle bill was passed, a similar public hearing was held and he did the same thing. He went out and in the immediate area surrounding the building where the public hearing was held, he gathered up a bag full of bottles and cans to show why a bottle bill is needed. This time, he wanted to show us why a better bottle bill is needed. In the bag with only a few bottles and cans in it, he had Pepsi cans, beer bottles and a few other returnable bottles. In the bigger bag, while he did put in some bottles and cans that looked returnable, he also had water bottles, Gatorade bottles and other beverages that aren't currently covered by the bottle bill. The symbolism spoke for itself: We need a better bottle bill to keep these bottles off of the ground.

robert.harding :: Bigger, Better Bottle Bill Hearing Held Today
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An alternative with a small problem (0.00 / 0)
Here in NYC everyone is required to recycle all those bottles, whether we paid a deposit or not.

If they paid a deposit, we can take the bottle to a store that sells it and get our deposit back.  If no deposit was paid, we are required to put that bottle in a recycling bag or recycling can.  That way, the water bottle gets recycled without the hassle of dealing with deposits.

The small problem is that a lot of people buy their water, Gatorade, etc., while on the move, and then throw the empty bottle into a public trash can.  Clearly, we need recycling bins all over the city, followed by a law that bans throwing recyclables into public trash cans.

Following that, we could get rid of the deposits altogether.

It's not perfect, and it won't bring in any extra money for the city (or anyone else).  In fact, it will cost money to buy and maintain the recycling bins.  But it is an alternative to the BBBB.


why not do both? (0.00 / 0)
in fact, if the state is going to take the unclaimed deposits from the bottlers, why not use a portion of that money to buy and maintain the bins?

TODAY is day one. It always is.

[ Parent ]
I don't think we can propose an alternative... (4.00 / 1)
Solely based off of what they do in New York City. Sure, you are required to recycle all those bottles, but there are people up here who recycle those same bottles whether they are required to or not.

The problem is that most people don't. I guarantee you that even though there are "requirements" in place to recycle in New York City that bottles of water and Gatorade end up in tied-up black garbage bags. I assume the punishment for not recycling is small, so it doesn't provide people with enough incentive to recycle, especially if there are people who get away with it and know other people who get away with it.

Think of it like speeding. Yes, there are punishments for speeding, but people still do it.

But since you won't see anybody paying people to drive slower, that is where the deposits come in to encourage people to recycle. And if they recycle, they get five cents per bottle or can. If you buy a 24 pack of anything, that's $1.20. Not a bad return on your investment.  


[ Parent ]
Two good comments (4.00 / 1)
I'm quite certain that there are a lot of bottles in black garbage bags.  One problem in NYC is that so many people live in apartment buildings where the fines for not recycling are handed to the landlords.  In the larger buildings, there are open cans on each floor for recycling, and most people do put their recyclables in the right container.

In the smaller buildings, however, where individual tenants bring out their garbage in the big bags, it's easy for someone to cheat.  Perhaps Phillip's idea of using the extra revenue from the BBBB to pay for public recycling stations would work.

The argument that stores can't handle the load, or would experience cleanliness problems, is interesting.  It is being advanced by people like John Catsimatidis, who owns the Gristedes chain of large stores -- where they have machines that handle recycled bottles and cans and print out receipts that can be taken to the counter for the cash.  It's the small bodegas that might have problems, not the large stores.

That's why Phillip's idea is interesting -- those same machines could be placed near bodegas, and paid for by the money gained by the state from the expanded recycling program.  (I also have no problem with some of the money going to pay for the machines that the larger stores have already purchased, but others might.)


[ Parent ]
Two things... (4.00 / 1)
First, I don't see public recycling stations as a solution either. It is a great idea, but I don't see it happening. Money is an amazing motivator and if you attach a deposit to those bottles, you will get more of them to be recycled than you would if you just told people that there is a recycling station to take their bottles if they want to be environmentally friendly.

That is the underlying goal of the BBBB: Provide an incentive for people to recycle even more than they already do.

I will have more on the sanitary part of the debate later, but I find it to be a minimal problem. I worked in a grocery store and I had to empty the bottle return machines. It wasn't pretty, but we need had any problems with rodents, insects and bacteria. We had Lysol for the bacteria and the insects stay away as long as you clean them out. And as for the rodents, if you have rodents, chances are there are other factors at work than the contents of a bottle.


[ Parent ]
Exactly (4.00 / 1)
I agreed with your point.  That's why I like Phillip's idea of combining the two ideas -- with the extra money from the BBBB used to make it easier to bring 'em back, and make it easier for stores to accept recycled bottles and cans.

[ Parent ]
Bad for the disadvantaged? I don't buy it. (0.00 / 0)
And neither should they.  Who needs bottled water?  That's the big question, and that's why the bottling industry hates this bill.  If I were the omnipotent dictator of NYS, there would be a TEN cent deposit on all such containers, with only the first nickel being refundable.  Let 'em pay a tax for the privilege of polluting the environment.

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