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NY-Sen: Gillibrand's Evolution On Guns

by: robert.harding

Wed May 20, 2009 at 17:15:00 PM EDT


(CLARIFICATION: I thought I would add this little note to make it clear why I linked to a Prison Planet post full of distortions about Sen. Gillibrand. The reason is that, if you look at the history of the right-wing blogosphere, they were once praising Gillibrand for her "A" rating from the NRA. Now, because she has evolved on this issue, she has ruffled some feathers on the right because she isn't doing what they want her to do.

There is a method to my madness here. I know what I'm doing. The reason for the link is to show that Gillibrand is doing all the right things. She must be on the right path if she is drawing the ire of conservatives for her stance on guns. That alone should be a good indicator of where she stands on guns.)

If you Google "Kirsten Gillibrand", you will get plenty of results. The first three are all good resources: Gillibrand's Wikipedia page, her U.S. Senate website and campaign website. But over on the right side of the page is a "sponsored link" featuring the title "Gillibrand Record on Guns." The link takes you to a page with Gillibrand's position on reducing gun violence.

When Gillibrand was first appointed to the U.S. Senate, I wrote a post that took a look at both sides of the gun debate and why it is important for us to understand both sides. I acknowledged that Gillibrand had received an "A" rating from the National Rifle Association (NRA). When she received that "A" rating, Gillibrand said the following about guns:

"I come from a family of hunters, and preserving this strong upstate tradition is a priority of mine in Congress," Gillibrand said. "I will continue to oppose legislation that will restrict the rights of responsible gun owners and I will continue to advocate for policies that will keep our rivers, land and air clean, so that future generations can enjoy hunting and wildlife in our region."

However, included on her gun safety page is this paragraph which probably best summarizes her current stance.

It is true that Kirsten comes from a family of hunters and believes the 2nd amendment protects the rights of responsible and eligible New Yorkers to own a gun. That is a core belief and will never change. However, ensuring hunters rights has nothing to do with reducing gun violence and making sure we keep guns out of the hands of criminals and other dangerous people.

Gillibrand had a chance to show her stance on guns when she voted against an amendment in the D.C. Voting Rights Act that would have restored gun rights in D.C.

It is safe to say that Gillibrand has found the middle ground on this issue. While she still believes that hunters should be protected, she also believes that gun safety and guns that are used for criminal purposes need to be off the streets. Earlier this month, conservatives said she was set to introduce an assault weapons ban that disappointed those at the NRA who supported her last year, although such legislation has not been announced and there hasn't been a press release about any such legislation from Gillibrand's office.

You can support gun rights and gun control at the same time. It looks like Gillibrand has found that place and knows how to handle both very well.

robert.harding :: NY-Sen: Gillibrand's Evolution On Guns
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Although this is a second- or third-tier issue, (0.00 / 0)
Gillibrand has modified her position to better accord with her new, larger constituency.

Purists on both sides will be disappointed, but the vast majority of voters (primary and general) will be comfortable with her middle-ground position on guns.


Agreed... (4.00 / 1)
Her position is a solid one. She believes in gun safety will also advocating for responsible gun rights. It is a nice balance. It pleases those like Rep. Carolyn McCarthy who are staunch gun control advocates and it will please the pro-gun people who enjoy hunting season.

[ Parent ]
She voted against the Coburn amendment (4.00 / 1)
to allow loaded weapons in National Parks...I thought she'd at least vote for THAT.

Russ Feingold and Bernie Sanders even voted for that.  


Credit Card Bill Add On (4.00 / 2)
It was tacked on to the credit card bill of rights, and knowing Gillibrand, she probably felt it had nothing to do with that issue--rightfully so.

[ Parent ]
Robert, you might not want to link to PrisonPlanet. (4.00 / 1)
It's an extreme tin-foil-hat website, and besides that, they're wrong. The Newsday article they cite as saying that Gillibrand planned to push a new AWB says nothing of the sort; that was Caroline McCarthy.  

Adama... (4.00 / 1)
I linked there, as stated in the sentence, to show how she has disappointed those same NRA right-wing types that were singing her praises last fall.

Sometimes we must link to those we despise because they make us look good and make themselves look foolish.  


[ Parent ]
As a rule, I try not to link to people who think that the WTC was brought down by nuclear weapons. (0.00 / 0)
They're doing quite a good enough job making themselves look foolish without help. :)

[ Parent ]
I know what I'm doing... (4.00 / 1)
Yes, they do have a lot of crazy thoughts. But the point of their piece was to attack Gillibrand for now turning on the NRA.

I will let my clarification stand as my explanation. I don't think I need to write an essay on why linking to them was necessary or made my point stronger.


[ Parent ]
Senator Gillibrand (4.00 / 1)
Brava to Senator Gillibrand who is reaching out to her millions of new constituents and learning about the concerns of all New Yorkers.

One important issue is that of gun violence and the easy availability of illegal guns which come in to NY from out of state.  She is working hard to close the gun show loopholes which are the source of many of the out of state guns.  She also is clear that assault weapons have no place in the hands of private citizens.

This common sense approach and commitment to public safety will make New York a safer place and help reduce gun violence everywhere.  To hear her own words, please go to http://www.conversationswithki...


A couple quick corrections. (4.00 / 1)
Actually according to the FBI, only about 1% of guns used in crime come from private sales at gunshows. Those out-of-state guns mostly come from what are called straw purchases, bulk buying of handguns at legal shops, then their illegal resale by that buyer for profit.

"She also is clear that assault weapons have no place in the hands of private citizens."

As far as I'm aware, Senator Gillibrand has expressed no opinion on a return of the Assault Weapons Ban.

And actually, that's the only place that they belong. Contrary to popular myth, "assault weapons" aren't military weapons at all, they're regular semi-automatic rifles no different from many hunting rifles. The military wouldn't touch them, because they use fully automatic rifles. It's like the difference between a Hummer and a HUMMVEE. Nobody would go onto a battlefield in a Hummer.


[ Parent ]
Facts & Quotes from Gillibrand (4.00 / 1)
Gillibrand's favorable rating with the NRA was based on only 3 votes over the course of a single congressional term. She said critics are "up in arms that I am supported by the NRA. And so they equate me with the NRA. I do not support the NRA's agenda. I support my constituents' agenda."

Gillibrand attributes her evolution on the gun issue to the difference between representing the entire state and a rural district that draped around Albany. Kirsten Gillibrand lives in an Upstate District where hunting has been an integral part of the culture and history for generations. It includes a big piece of the Adirondacks, a hunting and fishing mecca for over 100 years.

"My goal is to serve all of New York," she said. "And some of these issues are issues that we didn't have in my old district. We didn't have inner-city gun violence in my district because we didn't have any cities. We had small towns, and gun violence just wasn't an issue. We didn't have gang violence in my district, but recognizing that we have gang violence in many communities across upstate New York, we need to fight against it."

"So on guns, what I'm learning and what I will be able to be an advocate for is making sure that we keep guns out of the hands of criminals, making sure law enforcement has all the tools they need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and really to keep our streets and communities safe." She supported Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy's legislation to strengthen and enforce instant background checks to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.


I don't really see where Gillibrand has "evolved" or changed on this. (4.00 / 1)
People seem to assume that there's absolutely no middle ground on the issue, and that if you're against, say, mandatory gun registration and the banning of semi-auto rifles that you must be against background checks and laws to prevent straw purchases. Can anybody point to where she's supporting something now that she opposed before? Naturally she wouldn't have been spending her time pushing this sort of legislation as a Representative, since her district didn't have a major violent crime problem. Now that she is, some people assume it's a change.

The fact is that the sorts of laws most effective in curbing crimes involving a gun really don't have much effect on law-abiding gun owners, who are the people that Gillibrand and others like Eric Massa are looking to protect.


She evolved... (4.00 / 1)
Because she was not able to frame her stance in such a way that would be moderate. She has able to shift from a pro-gun stance and talking about gun rights to now being able to talk about both gun rights AND gun control.

She hasn't flip-flopped on this, at least based on what I have read. She still makes it clear that she is a supporter of gun rights. But now, she is talking about gun safety and keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. She was not able to do that before.

We saw after President Obama won and more Democrats were put into Congress that there was this right-wing theory that we were going to take all their guns away. That's not true, but that's exactly what the extreme of the gun rights side thinks.

Being able to have a senator who can say that she supports gun rights and gun safety is key. I'm glad that Gillibrand holds that position.  


[ Parent ]
It's an important distinction to make, because "evolved" is often a code-word for changing position. (4.00 / 1)
Take gay marriage, for instance. Schumer "evolved" on the issue by changing from one side to another. No bones about it, one day he opposed it, the next he did. But just because Gillibrand wasn't asked about it until recently doesn't mean, as some people suggest, that she necessarily altered her opinion.

This issue is another example. Gillibrand wouldn't have been talking about controlling gun crime as a rep, any more than a representative from south-central LA would have been talking about protecting hunters and sportsmen.

I really don't like describing somebody's position as "evolving." It sounds like soft-peddling a flip-flop, when the fact is that a representative is supposed to be able to change their mind when they get more information, or more responsibilities. If they changed their mind, I prefer to say so outright. If they didn't, then I prefer to make that clear as well.  


[ Parent ]
Evolving an issue... (4.00 / 1)
Is different than flip-flopping. The big difference is that you get specific and make clear what exactly your position is.

One of the definitions for "evolution" is: "development: a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage (especially a more advanced or mature stage)"

I know that people can alter the meaning of a word, but there are dictionaries for a reason. This is an issue Gillibrand has clearly evolved on, mainly because her new position allows her to do so.

Schumer didn't evolve on marriage equality. Schumer had a change of heart. He was first opposed to it, then supported it. That is different. As you have suggested before, there is no proof that Gillibrand was ever pro-NRA (she wasn't) or anti-gun control. But saying she was pro-gun control (or gun safety) in her district would have been bad for her re-election efforts.

Now, she can say that she supports gun rights while also believing in gun safety. There's no flip-flopping or changing of positions there. She merely evolved on the issue and was able to expand what her stance on the issue is.


[ Parent ]
Gillibrand on guns (0.00 / 0)
First she flipped and then she flopped and then she changed her mind.
She polled and parsed along her way the middle ground to find.
I guess we'll never know for sure in life if Gillibrand
Is someone who'll stick by her guns till they're pried from her cold, dead hand.

TerryONeillEsq@aol.com

Cute poem (0.00 / 0)
from a Republican lawyer/lobbyist/political poet.

[ Parent ]
Lawyer Poets (0.00 / 0)
Thank you.  You'll enjoy this:
http://myweb.wvnet.edu/~jelkin...

TerryONeillEsq@aol.com

[ Parent ]
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