Don't Get Mad. Get Even.

recent recall bill (0.00 / 0)

hey, i found this introduced on march 12th - a bill for voter recalls (i think).  does ny not have recalls now?  and who proposed this - are they republicans or democrats - i.e. was smith preparing for this?
http://www.thealbanyproject.co...

btw, i'm from jersey so maybe i'm missing something - but how does a state as overwhelmingly democratic as NY end up with such a split legislature??

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by: opivy73 @ Mon Jun 08, 2009 at 23:36:58 PM CDT

Recalls sound good now but I think that's a pandora's box (4.00 / 2)

See exhibit 1, California.  

The split leg comes from gerrymandering.  Essentially, most Dem Senators represent districts that are 95% Democratic, while most GOP Senators have districts that are 55% Republican.  I'm vastly oversimplifying it here, but you get the picture.

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by: Roatti @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 00:09:38 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No time to give you more than a quicky history lesson (4.00 / 1)

NY Leg. is so split in that the Republican Senate controlled their own redistricting gerrymandering friendly turf and running fuzzy old friends now in their 70's and 80's that have kept their noses just above the water line.  The traitors districts are one party D and will dump them both.  I see two or three more Rep seats flipped out in 2010 and then the Democrats take over redistricting which will be the final end to this fiasco! Both chambers will be 2-1 Democratic from 2012 forward representing the statewide voter registration preference.

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:29:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sabini Is Great But He Left the Seat Because The District Changed (4.00 / 1)

which is why Sabini took the job with the Racing Board.  He is not the candidate to beat Monteserrate.  This is now a Latino district so we need a Latino candidate. I don't know who that would be but I imagine there are plenty of takers out there.

I am sure the Bronx organization has someone they can find to take out Espada.  After all they disposed of Espada in 2004, the last time he did this, by running Reuben Diaz Sr against him.  I am sure they will have a candidate next year.

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by: JMNYC @ Mon Jun 08, 2009 at 23:39:51 PM CDT

You presuppose (4.00 / 1)

that they would want to take our Pedro. the Bronx is all about power and greed. Espada personifies that perfectly.

I have serious doubts about anyone in the Bronx Machine fielding a candidate against him. They like corrupt assholes who have juice.

I'm not gonna rock the boat. Rockin' the boat's a drag. What you do is sink the boat!
- Truth and Soul, Inc.

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by: Putney Swope @ Mon Jun 08, 2009 at 23:45:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Espada Has Terrible Relations With the Bronx Machine (4.00 / 3)

and it is to their advantage to have the Dems in power in the State Senate.  After all Jeff Klein, who comes out of the Bronx machine, was the number 2 leader in the State Senate.  

No doubt the Bronx machine is corrupt but they expect party loyalty.  I'd be stunned if they don't try to take Espada out just like they did in 2004.

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by: JMNYC @ Mon Jun 08, 2009 at 23:51:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lets hope they dont replace him with another Ruben Diaz Sr (0.00 / 0)

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by: Roatti @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 11:56:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good point (0.00 / 0)

A Latino/a would make more sense

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by: Roatti @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 00:13:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sabini (4.00 / 2)

has been convicted for DUI - it wouldn't be right to replace these two criminals with a Fossella.

Assemblyman Jose Peralta would be a better choice just looking at electeds...  

It is difficult to get the news from poems


Yet men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there.

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by: RichardPlatypus @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 00:43:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why do the Republiscum even bother? (4.00 / 1)

Girlfriend-stabber Monserrate and won't-bother-to-file-my-campaign-expense-reports Espada are out in 2010.  The Republicscum cannot win any of the Democratic-held State Senate seats.  They are going to face the mother of all election fights upstate, because the state party has nothing to lose by dumping pretty much all the money in the state into the upstate state Senate fights.    That's on top of the national hostility to the Republicans (only increasing) and the likely reaction to this scummy behavior.  Plus, we can run ads tying them to the girlfriend-stabber and to Golisano.

Even if the Republiscum somehow manage to sneak control back after 2010, the census will destroy them: the Republican population has left and the Democratic population has moved in.  All their upstate districts have either lost population or gained Democrats or both, while downstate has gained population and Democrats.

The extreme gerrymander they did last time left them with a not-quite-majority this time; there's no way they can gerrymander themselves into a majority next time.

Furthermore, mid-decade redistrictings are legal now.  I think after the astounding abuses of the Republiscum, we should end up with a Democratic Party which isn't afraid to do that if Republicans somehow control the Senate in 2010 and not in 2012.

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by: neroden @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 01:32:42 AM CDT

Thanks Robina! About time for a plan. (4.00 / 3)

Should go beyond just Espada and Monserratte (both toast in 2010).
As important, it's time the Senate Dems woke up. The press/messaging folks have been asleep at the wheel. Where are the mailings outlining Repub corruption and hypocrisy? The fair tax polled well over 60 percent. Golisano and Repub takeover should be tied to turning back tax structure to make middle class pay. Repubs who screamed about Monserrate's indictment should now be branded as his ally. Every woman voter in state should get mailings w. Skelos and Monserrate attached at the hip.

Money needs to be raised. But it isn't just about raising money. The Repubs were all over the op ed pages. Free media. Where were we?

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by: LOBlue @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 03:29:25 AM CDT

Sorry--meant Roatti-- It's late. (4.00 / 1)

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by: LOBlue @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 03:38:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

OK- (4.00 / 1)

Was thinking that I, for once, was kind of too shocked and bummed for planning.

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by: robinia @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 05:27:03 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No problem (0.00 / 0)

The Dems could have done a better job at messaging but they were just starting to percolate- Rockefeller reform, millionaire's tax, local government consolidation- they were just starting to produce some real results.  We should start hitting these themes for 2010 and not make the same mistake again

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by: Roatti @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 08:56:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Keep your eyes on the prize (4.00 / 1)

Lets keep in mind that the goal is not just defeating these cretins, but regaining control of the NYS Senate and retainig the Governorship in time for the redistricting after the 2010 census.   If the Dems are in full control of redistricting, the Repugs will never again be able to gain control of the NYS Senate to use as a stranglehold against progressive policy changes.  At least not in my lifetime.  

A couple of days before the "coup", I had a sleepless night worrying about Darrell Aubertine running for Congress in the 23rd, and thereby probably handing the Repugs back this Senate seat.    We have to contact Sen. Aubertine and beg him to stay where he is.   This is even more important now than it was a few days ago.  

Hopefully the 11 Democratic County Chairs in the 23rd CD who will pick the candidate are going to put the state first.    

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by: NYTrialman @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 06:43:48 AM CDT

Begging won't work (4.00 / 3)

I agree that we desperately need Aubertine as a leader in the Senate.  But, begging is a bit condescending, no?  How about actually giving cred (and bread) to the things that we upstate rural types think matter?

As long as the Dems act like Upstate is a backward colony full of people they are entitled to act superior to (while siphoning off their water supplies, energy, food and other natural resources), a Dem hold on power will be vulnerable.  Don't beg-- deliver.  That will work not just for Aubertine, but also for the people who worked to elect him and voted for him.

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by: robinia @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 07:34:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

2010 (4.00 / 4)

IMHO it is time for progressives throughout this state to really look at WHO we are going to support.  I fully understand what Roatti is saying -- HOWEVER, we need to put together something that unites the Democratic Party behind a set of reformist and progressive principles, i.e., marriage equality, decent schools, safe neighborhoods, universal medical care, lowering of property taxes, etc. without the usual patronizing ethnocentric hate mongering and finger pointing.

In other words, let's quit acting as if downstaters and upstaters do not have common interests.  We do -- so let us quit letting people split us along regional lines and begin the process of ending the Tammany Hall  business as usual politics  in New York.  IMHO we could and should organize a progressive town hall to begin reforming Albany from the bottom up.   TAP is a starting point -- but we need to carefully ensure that the usual fronts for Albany power brokers are openly exposed and dealt with at such a meeting and within such a movement.

I'll have more to say in a bit....  

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by: ElPocho @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 06:44:53 AM CDT

Pedro Espada? (4.00 / 1)

"Who the f--- is Pedro Espada?  Isn't that the guy who slashed his girlfriend?"

(Yes, I know that's Monte... but "don't get mad, get even.")

Too low?

Well, it's what a Republican operative would do.  Maybe we ought to take some tips from them.  It seems to work for them so well.

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by: NYCO @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 07:06:16 AM CDT

PS (4.00 / 1)

Listen to ElPocho, not me (I'm just venting).

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by: NYCO @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 07:11:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

As far as I'm concerned (0.00 / 0)

they both slashed their constituents

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by: Roatti @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 11:58:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

AD 78 and 86 seem to overlap Espada (4.00 / 2)

That would be Nelson Castro and Jose Rivera.  Anyone know if these guys would make god challenges and have interest in moving up?

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:01:18 AM CDT

AD 39 seems to be in Monserrate territory (4.00 / 1)

That would be Jose Peralta?

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:05:38 AM CDT

NYC city council would also be a great place to recruit challengers from... (0.00 / 0)

that's where we got Congressman McMahon, Senator Addabbo and almost-senator Gennaro from this past cycle.

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by: soko @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 10:15:55 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Who replaced Monserrate on the City Council? (0.00 / 0)

That could be our Huckleberry!

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 21:15:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Never Mind, Liz had the answer and no City Council help in Monserrate (0.00 / 0)

his former top aide, Julissa Ferreras, when she successfully ran in a special election for the City Council seat vacated by her boss when he went to the Senate.

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by: politics64 @ Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 07:05:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Where to start (4.00 / 1)

Wow, there is tons of words on this blog over the past 24 hours. 85% of it is crap. Sort fo reminds me why I stopped coming here.

For starters, why is everyone hating on the Republicans? Yes, I will agree, there are some phonies out there, but the same is true of the Democrats. Case in point, 2 corrupt democrats are now being USED (rather smartly) by the Republicans to actually accomplish something.

While, on some levels I find this very distasteful, mostly due to who the Republicans chose to form this "coalition" with, I must consider the overall pros of this move.

Very good reform rules were put in place yesterday afternoon. And I have not seen that sentiment ecchoed by any of the front page writers of this blog.

What I have read, is hate, blame, malicious predictions and lies, which is pretty pathetic.

I did read one post which was good, and the right thing, which talked about removing Espada & Monserrate - thats the correct thing to do. Trust me, the Republicans have some cleaning up to do themselves, the last thing we need is a couple more leeches, we have enough of our own bottom feeders already.

Finally, Id like to say that, we are all in this boat together. This would be another opportunity for us all to point out, why a 2 party system is not sufficient.

So to summize:
1. The rule changes made yesterday are good.
2. Dont cray and whine when you lose, its politics.
3. We need a third party ... Anyone interested in forming the Pirate Party?

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by: chenangofreethinker @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:08:56 AM CDT

OK (4.00 / 2)

Very good reform rules were put in place yesterday afternoon. And I have not seen that sentiment ecchoed by any of the front page writers of this blog.

-Robinia wrote a front page story on that. You can find it on the Front Page.

Dont cray and whine when you lose, its politics.

-I kinda think that this is the place to cry and whine. If you want to yell at people crying and whining on nonpartisan sites, like CapCon and Liz Benjamin's site, go ahead. But this is our house.

This would be another opportunity for us all to point out, why a 2 party system is not sufficient.

-See Duverger's Law says we're stuck with two parties forever, so we'll have to learn to live with it.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:45:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Especially in a non Parliamentary system Duverger's Law holds true (0.00 / 0)

But the WFP success does demonstrate the influence upon the two parties that a third party can have, it will not bring a third party into power but it can certainly generate influence.  But I digress, I agree with you on your responses and resent that writers 85% comment in particular!

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 10:15:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

What Amherst Guy said (4.00 / 1)

you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts- Robina wrote a front-page diary ont he rules reform.  Perhaps if you actually read this blog you wouldn't be so critical of it

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by: Roatti @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 10:12:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I haven't seen something "very good" (0.00 / 0)

from the Republicans for my entire life...I'm not trusting I'm suddenly going to see it now.  

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by: nrafter530 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 12:57:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Curious (0.00 / 0)

I am curious why seemingly nobody is worked up at Smith? This whole mess happened under his leadership. From my perspective he has done pretty much nothing while leading the Senate. From the whole mess of who was going to be Senate leader (and the bad concession he made to be it) to this mess during his leadership (or lack thereof), has been pathetic. He should be held at least partly responsible too. I can't figure out why he is getting a "pass" here?

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by: MattS @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:53:05 AM CDT

I see no Smith pass here at all (0.00 / 0)

The number one issue has been the gang of four from day one and they must headline our more and better Democrats effort. Like world war II we need deal with Germany and Japan before punishing Franco in Spain for his part in all this.

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 10:18:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Smith's not getting a pass from me (0.00 / 0)

I'm being much more vocal about the Two Asshats and their Repub friends, but Smith's done as far as I'm concerned.  There's no way he should have allowed this to blindside us as much as it did.  He'll never hold a leadership position again.

New Yorkers against Harold Ford

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by: Jrathman @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 10:30:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

nor from me (0.00 / 0)

I guess my expectations for Smith were pretty low after the whole "buy us cheap now" episode, which looks even stranger now than it did then.  I had some hope too, but that just makes me look strange now.

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by: simonstl @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 11:32:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lots of blame to pass around (4.00 / 1)

Top of my list is the DSCC.  We needed two seats to get a majority, they supported maybe three and squeaked by.  There needed to be 10 serious challenges to R incumbents.  Challengers were there, but once again they were not supported.  Some of them were actually undermined.  

Next is the State Democratic party.  We need a 62 county strategy.  I worked counties in the last cycle where the entire county committee consists of two or three people with virtually no real campaign experience or training.  

The Gov.  Lets face it, if we had a governor with the credibility that s/he should have, this sort of thing would not happen.  

Smith.  What happened to all the wonderful reforms which were going to take place when Dems got the majority?  As DevTob reported here, Smith was bringing forward a bill to distribute the pork, something like $10/$1 Dems to Reps. Ironic and not cool at all.  

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by: jmcbride @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 11:11:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I posted here about a 62 County Strategy long ago! (0.00 / 0)

I could not agree more that all 32 Republicans need a stiff challenger in 2010.

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by: politics64 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 21:18:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

great idea (4.00 / 1)

1. First and foremost, tomorrow every one of us should contact the chairs of the Bronx (for Espada) and Queens (for Monserratte) Democratic Committees and ask them for a commitment that under no circumstances will the committee put either Senator up for the Party's nomination in 2010.

This is the way to go. Espada and Monserratte didn't switch parties because they know they can only win as Dems. If they have to run as Republicans they're out and they know it.

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/SteveinNYC

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by: SteveinNYC @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 13:15:33 PM CDT

There is no way Queens Dems will put Monserrate up again (0.00 / 0)

they didn't even want to put him at all. He nearly defeated Sabini in 2006 despite no support from the County Dems and was on track to beat him in 2008 despite lack of support. Monserrate had run as the "anti-establishment" candidate because Sabini had been around almost 30 years.

Of course that doesn't disallow this false rationale from popping up on DailyKos;

Rounding out the trio is one Hiram Monserrate, of Brooklyn...his predecessor, Senator Jonathan Sabini, a strong Progressive, was pushed out by governor Paterson and Democrats to make way for him. What do his new friends actually think of him?

Which, speaking from someone who was involved in Queens Democratic politics in 2006 and 2008 is completely untrue. Sabini was going down anyway and he didn't want to loose the primary. His appointment was to prevent him from being defeated or being forced to retire.  

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by: nrafter530 @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 13:49:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A county chair (4.00 / 1)

reserves the right under state law to kick someone out of the party for "disloyalty".

I think this qualifies.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 17:36:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]