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Jeffrey Feldman Book Club Discussion Thread

by: phillip anderson

Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 18:48:22 PM EDT


This is the thread for our Book Club discussion with Jeffrey Feldman. We are discussing Jeffrey's new book (Which is awesome, btw. It's a treasure trove of great ideas about how to create and deploy our own progressive frames whilst avoiding using the frames of the wingnut right) Framing the Debate: Famous Presidential Speeches and How Progressives Can Use Them to Change the Conversation (and Win Elections). The discussion starts at 7pm, about 10 minutes from now.
phillip anderson :: Jeffrey Feldman Book Club Discussion Thread
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Hello, everyone! (4.00 / 1)
Thanks so much for having me as a guest at TAP!

hello, jeffrey (0.00 / 0)
thank you so much for being here.

i'd like to start by asking why you chose the vehicle of famous (and some not so famous) presidential speeches to use to speak about progressive frames. why is that and how did that come about?

TODAY is day one. It always is.


[ Parent ]
The main idea was "roots" (4.00 / 1)
First off, I wanted to write a book that gave the progressive movement some "roots" in American history.  That's an incredibly lofty claim, I know.  But my conviction was (and is) that for the progressive movement to be viable  over time, it had to be firmly grounded in American ideas.

Next, I wanted to show people that framing was a set of tools broadly applicable to politics--not just for fighting with the right wing media.  So I wanted to take the tools I use everyday in Frameshop, lift them up (gesturing with my hands), and drop them in a remote period in time. 

I also wanted a book that would be relevant to the Presidential primary season--relevant right now, as it were. 

Lastly (phew!), I wanted the book to be a safe haven where people could go for what I call "breathing room" or "fresh air."  A book to read that was about progressive ideas, but far away from the day-to-day of the blogs. 


[ Parent ]
how did you choose these particular speeches? (0.00 / 0)
and were there any that you wished to include, but for whatever reason, couldn't?

TODAY is day one. It always is.

[ Parent ]
I set up some conditions (4.00 / 1)
Each speech had to be by a President, while they were in office.  That put me in the realm of public domain texts--which I wanted. 

Then, I made sure that the speeches were all accessible enough without deep knowledge of the period--that put me on inaugurals and farewell addresses. 

After that it was pretty much trial and error.  I think the one speech that took me the longest to pick was Clinton. Believe it or not, none of Clinton's speeches stick out particularly while he was President.  I think he was just good on his feet, but he didn't have a particular moment that really hit me in the face as interesting.  But by that time, I had the structure of the book in place and just went with the Second Inaugural.

 


[ Parent ]
Can't stay, alas - (4.00 / 1)
have another meeting - but -

it's great to see someone looking through the past for key stories we can tell again.  One of the things that worries me about "progressives" is their often relentless orientation to the present and future.

Of course, I've been mining Ronald Reagan's speeches for a long time.  "Trust but verify" seems like a good general rule in politics before they melt down, and it might be fun to go to Albany and shout "Mr. Bruno and Mr. Silver, tear down these walls!"

They'd look at each other and ask which walls, of course.


[ Parent ]
exactly the point (4.00 / 1)
That's the exact idea--not to go back to the speeches for nostalgia (although that's OK), but to build an important bridge with what came before. 

Also, framing is generally easier to see with some distance.  So when people read a classic speech, they get what I'm talking about better.


[ Parent ]
which Reagan was good at (4.00 / 1)
"shining beacon on a hill"

[ Parent ]
Reagan was the king of nostalgia (4.00 / 1)
but a nostalgia for a history that never happened.  Reagan's farewell address which I discuss in the book is an absolute masterpiece.  In it he gazes out across the White House lawn at the boats on the Potomac--as if Washington, DC didn't even exist. Incredible storytelling  and depravity at the same time.

[ Parent ]
The speeches (4.00 / 1)
Jeff - First of all I love the book, for me it's a way to reboot my brain after doing so much reading during the day. I know you read other speeches that didn't make the book and I wanted to ask about the volume. There's a feeling that progressivism failed to mobilize after Reagan or that it lost it's appeal. Now there's a lot of reasons for the electoral success and failures but did you see the trend in speeches you were looking at? I go back to the FDR speech in your book(or some of Truman's campaign speeches for '48) and liberalism had a lot of force. Was that evident historically when you were doing your research?

great question (0.00 / 0)
when i read the book, i was thinking much the same thing about the FDR speech and the historical force of liberal ideas. it's astonishing to me just how diminished those ideas have become in the public discourse. i think it shows just how effective the right has been in reframing those ideas to our disadvantage and how much big media, now owned almost entirely by the right, has played a part in tearing them down.

TODAY is day one. It always is.

[ Parent ]
The Great Society (4.00 / 1)
I think FDR resonates with us now, but my sense is that the Johnson Great Society frame is really what constrains liberal thinking.  While the Bush assault on Social Security sent us back to FDR, the core liberal issues of the day all head straight back to Johnson:  environment, education, urban development. 

[ Parent ]
i guess that's true (0.00 / 0)
for the post depression era generations, but my grandmother had a portrait of FDR on her wall the day she died in 1995. she and her family were dirt freakin' poor during the depression and then they weren't. my great grandfather got a job with the WPA and then they had enough money to buy things like food and shoes.

as much as the concrete benefits of the new deal made a difference in their lives, the rhetoric did as well. my grandmother could still recite to me FDR's words 60 years later, words she heard as a child on a radio that was powered by a milk truck's battery. (the milk truck didn't moe because no one could afford the milk.)

there was something about the words, the iseas, the frames, and, yes, the results of those words that kept my grandmother a solid FDR dem for her entire life.

TODAY is day one. It always is.


[ Parent ]
generations (4.00 / 1)
That raises a question I wanted to tackle about framing and generations, but I never got to it.

I believe that finding historic ties for our ideas can be a basis for building consensus in the present.  Lakoff, by contrast, looks to what he calls "biconceptuals" as the basis for building a broader consensus.

Your grandmother's continued dedication to FDR's ideas is a good example of how those speeches in the 1930s can be the starting point for building a broad appeal--at both the state and national level. 

Just getting them into our heads--reading them, loading them onto our iPods and listening to them--can be the starting point for a building a foundation of ideas.

I think the ruptures of the 1960s and 1970s, as well as multiculturalism in the 1980s and 90s, has made us doubt whether we can have a common heritage as progressives. But I believe we can and the stuff in the book is the starting point.


[ Parent ]
Absolutely (0.00 / 0)
FDR is a source for progressive framing on many levels, but Johnson and Carter are each high points in their own way.  In many ways, Carter is the most progressive speaker of them all--often speaking directly to the definition itself.

But Reagan's ability at framing and phrasing seems to have rocked the foundations and after him the waters are muddy. 

Clinton was a great framer, but I don't think his speeches bear even a tenth of the progressivism we find in Carter.


[ Parent ]
jeffrey, you go to great lengths (0.00 / 0)
to describe in your book the difference between "framing" and "spin". can you describe that difference again for those that might not have read the book (yet)?

TODAY is day one. It always is.

spin is dishonest (4.00 / 1)
Spin is the toolkit Republicans use to "sell cigarettes to children." In other words, if you have a policy that will harm the middle class, you need  to dress it up in a wrapper to make it look like it's good for the middle class.  "Healthy Forests" is the classic example of right wing spin--a policy to give old-growth forests to industry spun as a policy to thin out forests so they aren't destroyed by forest fires.

Framing is a set of tools for engaging, developing, clarifying and presenting ideas.  Johnson's Great Society or FDR's New Deal are classic examples.  Their goal was to completely rework how we thought about American life, and then to advance policies that articulated that vision.

Framing is much more long term than spin, which is often a more on-the-fly tactic for short term gains. 


[ Parent ]
How much of their reworking (4.00 / 1)
do you think was creating something new and how much was tapping into existing sentiment?

[ Parent ]
I'm curious if you noticed (4.00 / 1)
structural factors around memorable Presidential speeches. For example, it seems like a lot of your speeches come from wartime Presidents.

my taste for a bit of drama (4.00 / 1)
My instinct was to look for moments where President were seeking to frame national or domestic crises. That kept me out of a huge period of speeches that just didn't appeal to me--that run of Presidents from Lincoln to TR.

Ultimately, this comes from my particular training as an anthropologist, where I was taught to see social dramas as key windows onto big issues.

The structure, then, comes from the recurrent need in most of the examples for the President to talk the country out of a crisis. 


[ Parent ]
talk the country out of a crisis (0.00 / 0)
interesting turn of phrase. that's going to stick with me.

[ Parent ]
one last question from me (0.00 / 0)
from a progressive point of view, framing is a rather ne phenomena. we know from your work and the work of others, namely the man who wrote the forward to your book, george lakoff, that the idea of framing is vitally important to commanding and influencing the the public discourse of the great ideas and themes of out times. what can progressives do to improve our framing acumen, aside from obviously reading books such as yours?

how do we get better at not only avoiding the well crafted frames of the right, but excel at deploying our own frames, ones which lay the debate on our terms? do we need to employ linguists or speechwriters or develop our own army of Luntzs?

i know this is addressed in your book, but just for the benefit of those who may not have read it yet, what advice do you have for progressives moving forward?

TODAY is day one. It always is.


several components (4.00 / 1)
As individuals, we get better by engaging and framing issues we see in the media each day.  Framing is not just a way of thinking about politics, but also of acting politically.  Engaging what we hear, asking what is being framed and how, and then responding in our writing and our conversations--all that is key.

In political campaigns and offices, progressives need to hire people and make them responsible for the day-to-day work. Not just linguists/anthropologists, but people with the ability to  occupy that space in between communications and tactics. 

If I had one wish, it would be for every elected Democrat to hire a person specifically to keep track of framing, and to make sure that person was in every meeting. 

It's a long term project--so the more we can each get around the country and talk to people about these tools, the more progressive framers will sprout up and change the dynamic.

It took the Republicans about 30 years to dominate the debate.  I think it will take progressives 5 years to get it back.


[ Parent ]
Thanks so much, everyone! (4.00 / 2)
No matter how we frame it, The Albany Project is an incredibly important resource.  Thanks for your questions and...

I hope to see all of you at the April 24 book signing (B&N Greenwich Village) featuring TAP's own Brian Keeler and me discussing framing issues and more (link).


thanks so much, jeffrey (0.00 / 0)
i want to thank jeffrey for dropping by to discuss his book and the vital ideas contained therein. progressives are about 30 years late to this game, but, with the work of folks like jeffrey and george lakoff behind us, i think we can catch up pretty quick.

if you haven't yet read jeffrey's book, i really can't recommend it highly enough. it's widely available now and you can even get it delivered to Frameshop. It is an amazingly valuable resource. one of the best pieces i've seen so far about the cultural significance of the blacksburg massacre was posted there by jeffrey today.

thanks again, jeffrey and to all those who stopped by to take part.

TODAY is day one. It always is.


[ Parent ]
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