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Senate Dems Lock Themselves Inside the Senate Chamber

by: Roatti

Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 13:54:38 PM EDT


What should we make of this?
Senate Democrats entered the locked Senate chamber through a back hallway on Tuesday afternoon and locked themselves in, pulling off a sneak attack of sorts in the ongoing battle for control of the State Senate.

The move took the Capitol by surprise, and left Republicans scrambling to plan their next procedural move. Republicans had planned to enter the chamber at 2 p.m. - an hour before the special session called by Gov. David A. Paterson was scheduled to begin. Who would be in the chamber first became a key question on Tuesday as Republicans and Democrats failed again to reach a compromise over the disputed Senate leadership.

"At this point, they refuse to enter into an operating agreement," Senator Eric T. Schneiderman, a Democrat who represents the Upper West Side, told reporters just before he and his fellow Democrats sneaked into the chamber. "We hope that they will come back to the table, and that we'll be able to agree on rules. Our view is that we cannot ignore the people's business that the governor is calling us back to do."

One one hand, it's good to see the Senate Dems take initiative and not just react as the GOP plays them.  On the other hand, this is just childish and embarrassing. What's next? Will the 2 sides decide who gets control via a duel? (actually, that proposal would at least serve as a term-limit action of sorts).  Are we still living in the United States of America here or has New York become a banana republic?  

How many times have we all said "Just when you think Albany can't get any worse..."

Ugh.

Update:  I know the Judicial branch doesn't like to meddle in the internal affairs of the other branches of government, but there are some times when there is no other choice.  This might be one of those times.  

UPDATE 2:Robina puts it perfectly

I feel a little like a boxing fan-- I know it is rigged, and I'm a bit embarrassed I'm still watching.

Roatti :: Senate Dems Lock Themselves Inside the Senate Chamber
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We both posted at the same time, alas (4.00 / 1)
but I think we can at least hope this afternoon, uh, finds the bottom of this.

Yeah saw that (4.00 / 1)
sorry to step on your toes  

[ Parent ]
I'm just happy (4.00 / 1)
someone else is posting!

[ Parent ]
Good job on keeping the lights on here btw (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
You nailed it with "childish." (4.00 / 2)
Much like the initial panic reaction from our Democrats (turning off the lights? C'mon), this is indeed juvenile and embarrassing. It does not make me proud to be a member of the same party as these clowns.

more from the NYT (0.00 / 0)
about the back corridor Dems used to go in.

Albanycitizen1, who seems to be there, just tweeted that the GOP and Espada are entering the chamber.  Guess his key still works?


Winner seeks gavel (0.00 / 0)
mkink tweets that "all senators are on the floor sen winner trying to take the gavel but does not"

Picture would make this clearer.  Wish the video feed was on.  127 people seem to be trying to watch.


[ Parent ]
Dems brought back Connor as parliamentarian (0.00 / 0)
so says Capitol Confidential, who report Andrea Stewart-Cousins at the podium as well.

And mkink tweets:

republican senators holding another mock session, democratic senators not recognizing it as in order

I wonder if that's where this stalemates - neither side recognizes the existence of the other somehow.


[ Parent ]
Okay, this is getting kind of pathetic. (4.00 / 1)
Frankly I'm starting to think that we need to emulate the parlimentary systems, where if a governing majority can't be established they dissolve the body and hold new elections.  

That would also take care of the gerrymandering problem (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Not really (4.00 / 1)
Most parliaments have ridings with defined geographical limits.  It's only when you get to small countries (like Israel) that you have nationally elected slates of candidates with proportional representation.  (New York is of course nearly three times the size of Israel.)

[ Parent ]
Italy and France have entirely PR systems as well (0.00 / 0)
It's actually fairly common among proportional representation systems.  Any system with district representatives is either a first past the post system (i.e. US and Britain) or some sort of mixed system (Germany is a good example of that).

[ Parent ]
Reps reading, 'passing' bills? (0.00 / 0)
The Republicans might be out of there before 3pm if they're reading all the bills and announcing ayes 62 for everything.

Dems sat through the pledge of allegiance - will we see that in commercials?  


Suddenly, Joe Lieberman looks good (4.00 / 3)
Remember 2006, when Joe "I'm a tough guy" Lieberman lost the Democratic primary only to win the general election as an "independent"?  Democrats gained nominal control of the Senate that year, but only because Lieberman caucused with the Dems.

I wasn't happy with Lieberman's decision to run as an independent, but comparing him with Pedro Espada, Lieberman's looking pretty saintly right now.

One more thing -- Dems in Congress couldn't do much in 2007-8 because their Senate "majority" was mighty thin; those who would complain that NY state Senate Dems couldn't get anything done this year could stand to take note of the fact that the Democratic Party never really had a solid majority.  Ideally, we pick up two or three more seats next year, and then we can move forward; unfortunately, this insanity is going to make that much harder.


video alive (0.00 / 0)
just said the pledge.  People talking during moment of silence - Republicans continuing their competing session?

http://www.nysenate.gov/new-york-state-senate-live


[ Parent ]
Tony finally resigned? (4.00 / 1)
My assemblyman, my aunt used to be married to his nephew. I could have told you the guy was a douche in 1986.  

[ Parent ]
video more useful when it has sound (0.00 / 0)
and I know that the Senate Dems are trying to use the video feed to reinforce their claim of control, but turning sound on and off based on what they Dems are doing isn't actually very useful for the rest of us.

this is painful (4.00 / 1)
The video seems to show George Winner going about his business, buried under the titling, while everyone else on the podium just stands there.

Not sure they could have created a worse visual, and killing the sound when "the Senate stands at ease" just makes it worse.

I hope someone has a better video recording of this.  I'm adding "always on video and sound in the chamber" to my list of things that should be reformed.

Dems - free the #nysenate video/audio! More important that voters know what's going on than that your message only get out.


[ Parent ]
now they've cut to the state seal (4.00 / 1)
which I'm sure all 514 of us on the video feed are greatly admiring.

[ Parent ]
Seriously (4.00 / 2)
The fact that the Dems can just control the feed like this is patently absurd.

[ Parent ]
the audio (4.00 / 1)
gets cut whenever the senate is "at ease" and it is cut by folks on the floor. that's the way it has always been.

not our call. just so ya know.

TODAY is day one. It always is.


[ Parent ]
dumb idea (0.00 / 0)
whoever's call it was.

Joe Bruno's?  And left that way?

Inexcusable, especially in times like these.


[ Parent ]
But even when the Senate was not at ease (4.00 / 1)
like when Malcolm Smith was speaking, the Republican mic's were off.  My understanding is that George Winner and Skelos and others were also talking but you couldn't hear them because the mics were off.  If that's the case, then there's a problem.  If it's as you explained it, that's different.

[ Parent ]
that's true - Smith did pop up a few times (0.00 / 0)
not that I could really understand what he was saying, alas.

[ Parent ]
Paterson hasn't sent the bills? (0.00 / 0)
what?

Some days I really don't get it.


No bills (4.00 / 1)
Some days Gov. Paterson really doesn't get it.  He's the one who called this session, and he refused to delay it, so what's his problem?

[ Parent ]
it'll apparently take some time (0.00 / 0)
to renumber and reprint the bills for the special session.

Umm....


[ Parent ]
Is this a joke? (4.00 / 2)
The two sides are talking over each other, pretending that they have the floor and the other side doesn't.  

How can we expect anything to get done if the legislative leaders act like spoiled babies?  This is absurd.

Oh, it's also a really terrible touch that the TV sound feed goes on when Malcolm Smith has something to say and then goes right back off.  Sheesh, I don't empathize with the Republicans but that's some heavy-handed nonsense to pretend like the Republicans aren't even on the floor.  Just show the people what's happening.


in case anyone's wondering what you're staring at (4.00 / 1)
if you're watching the video feed, that appears to be stained glass of this image from the flag and great seal of New York.

If I see this much longer I think Liberty and Justice will start talking, and that might be an improvement.


Too pathetic (4.00 / 2)
I feel a little like a boxing fan-- I know it is rigged, and I'm a bit embarrassed I'm still watching.

Way too wack.  I wish there were somebody down there who I thought was acting admirably.    


I agree.... it's samefull (4.00 / 1)
They are acting like a bunch of children. It looks they forgot what they were sent to do.

[ Parent ]
746 viewers (4.00 / 1)
but yeah, democrats are clowns. Our senate is in shambles, Im suggesting that we the people bring a suit against our respective parties. We must make the Executive and Judicial branch do their balancing job on our behalf.

That means pulling out a club and beating some sense into these ridiculous senators.


it's down to 607 now (0.00 / 0)
which is impressive when you consider how silent it's been for a while.

[ Parent ]
Just had some action (4.00 / 2)
Malcolm Smith just called an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee.  Based on the lack of yelling and relative calm, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Republicans are out of the session at this point.

seem to be passing stuff (0.00 / 0)
though I'm not hearing or seeing any Republicans, so I guess they're not around, which makes me wonder whether any of this is legal.

Crazy...

(Figures they'd start up when I stepped out - oh well.  I guess I need more patience.)


[ Parent ]
huh (0.00 / 0)
Now they're standing at ease again, "just for three minutes"

[ Parent ]
I can foresee the argument (0.00 / 0)
They'll say that there WAS quorum at the beginning so that establishes quorum throughout.

Which, by the way, is procedurally bullsh*t.  


[ Parent ]
Roll Call (0.00 / 0)
Maybe this is standard procedure, but why, when they call roll, does the Speaker just name "Adams, Klein, Kruger, Skelos, Smith, Young", without naming any other Senators or waiting for any responses?

[ Parent ]
Not normal roll call (0.00 / 0)
Essentially this is part of the call for objections.  But there's some procedural play here where it's presumed that there are no objections.  So I got the impression it's something to the extend of "anyone A-K object?  How about L-Z?"  but in a much quicker context.  Also note the names.  Adams and Young are alphabetically the first and last Senators and then we have Smith (ML), Skelos (Min. Leader), Klein (Deputy) and Krueger (Finance Chair + something else?)

[ Parent ]
Oh Flying Spaghetti Monster (0.00 / 0)
And here comes the next legal dispute:

""The session that was called for 2 o'clock went forward," Winner said. "We passed the agenda. That in and of itself is recognition of the validity of the June 8th vote."

"...We did take a quorum call," he continued. "Just as the ordinary practice of session, the secretary marks those present who are in the room. And that was done in the ordinary course of business of doing the Senate. We did not need a quorum call because we had all 62 senators present in the room."

"There were 62 senators in the room. They voted for those measures. The only glitch that we have right now is to get secretary out with the bill jackets, do his job, and allow us to sign the bill jackets so that the measures are properly passed...We took a roll call. And they were present. Unless you raise your hand and vote no, you're voting yes, Those are the rules of the Senate.""

So basically because the Dems were in the Senate room while the Republicans convened, they're claiming that they passed the agenda because there was quorum.  

Democrats will then claim the session was invalid.  Why?  Because they don't recognize the legitimacy of the Republican governing structure.

It's time for the Courts to settle this.  There's clearly no other way to get this done.


Late to the party (0.00 / 0)
Sorry I've missed out on all the fun the past few days.  I was hiding out in the Finger Lakes National Forest... one of the few places in NY not actually run by these incompetent boobs.

Ah, Hector for the heck of it-- National Forest! (4.00 / 1)
A lovely place this time of year.  You missed absolutely nothing but a bunch of irresponsible oafs spending money that we don't have on arranging court battles we can't afford while the mining companies carry our water supply off to Hades in a hand-basket.  Oh, and NYS Legislature makes NPR national news: "Grow up and show up." So, they managed one of those two, sorta.  Pee-thetic.

[ Parent ]
An Insult To Children (4.00 / 1)
"On the other hand, this is just childish and embarrassing."

That's an insult to children everywhere. My 5th-grade nieces could cooperate, do a better job, and get more done than these jokers.


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