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The "Cup of Coffee Coup": The Dems make their case and it's good.

by: Putney Swope

Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 14:32:48 PM EDT


Liz Benjamin has a document from one of the Senate Dems attorneys about Senator Padavan's stroll through the chamber yesterday. I know the validity of the session yesterday has taken quite a beating around this site since yesterday and even I thought it was kinda shady. But I think this guy makes a pretty good case:

Our legal team has concluded that today's procedures were entirely proper under the New York State Constitution, the laws of the State of New York, and long standing Senate Rules and Procedures. Accordingly, we have sent a letter to the Governor and the Speaker of the Assembly demonstrating the following:

1. The Senate Obtained a Quorum in Regular Session today

* 31 Democrats were recorded as present in the chamber. The Senate convened a regular session at noon today. Lisa Copeland, Deputy Journal Clerk of the Senate, identified 31 Democratic members as present in the Senate Chamber and, in accordance with longstanding Senate procedure and custom, marked them as present in the Chamber.

* Senator Padavan was also recorded as present in the chamber. In addition to the 31 Democratic members, Ms. Copeland identified Senator Frank Padavan (R-Queens) as being present in the Chamber at the time attendance properly and timely was recorded.  Many Senators and Senate staff also observed Senator Padavan in the Chamber at this time.  Accordingly, Ms. Copeland marked Senator Padavan as present.

     * These attendance records are included in the day's Senate Journal in the ordinary course of Senate business, and the Journal of the Senate is conclusive proof of the proceedings of the Senate.

2. A Senator counts toward quorum if he enters the Chamber and is marked as present by the Journal Clerk.

* The Court of Appeals in 1982 held that a Senator counts toward quorum if he enters the Senate Chamber and is marked as present by the Journal Clerk.  See Heimbach v. State, 89 A.D.2d 138 (2d Dept. 1982), aff'd 59 N.Y.2d 891 (1983), app. dismissed 464 U.S. 956 (1984).

* It is longstanding custom and practice of the Senate that the mere physical presence of a Senator on the floor during the proceedings is deemed to be attendance.

3. A Senator's exit from the Chamber after being recorded as present does not render him absent from the Senate for quorum purposes

* Senator Padavan, having been recorded as present for quorum purposes, is not deemed absent for quorum purposes when he leaves the chamber.

As the Appellate Division noted in the Heimbach case: "By long-standing custom, a Senator's presence is established by his actual entry into the chamber at some point during a session day and having himself marked present by the clerk of the Senate. Thereafter, his presence is presumed to continue unless he requests that he be excused or informs the clerk of his departure."  Heimbach, 89 A.D.2d at 147.

4. Quorum, After Being Properly Established, has to be Challenged ... and it never was by Sen. Padavan or anyone else.

* At no time did any Senator question the existence of a quorum after Senator Padavan left the chamber.

* Mason's Manual of Legislative Procedure which is binding as a matter of law in this case, holds that: "[w]hen a body has convened with a quorum present, it can continue to transact business as long as a quorum is present and it is presumed that the quorum continues to be present until the question of no quorum is raised or the lack of quorum is disclosed by a vote." See Mason's § 504(1).

5. The "Fast Roll Call" Procedure was Typical and Valid under the Law and Rules of the Senate

* Once quorum was obtained, the Senate took up non-controversial legislation by well-established "fast roll" call vote under Senate Rule VIII, § 6(b).  (Under the same rule a fast roll call is actually the norm. A "slow" roll call of all Senators - where each Senator is called by name and must say "aye" or "nay"  - is only conducted when five Senators demand a slow roll call. No such request was made today at any time.

* In a "Fast Roll Call", a bill can be passed after the Journal Clerk calls the names of five Senators and any negative votes are counted. Under a fast roll call Senators marked as present are presumed to vote "yes" on the bill. Accordingly, if there are 32 senators present and none vote "no" then a bill is passed.

6. The Assembly and Governor Must Deem the Bills Passed

* The Constitution does not permit the Assembly to question Senate passage of bills.  The Constitution is clear that "[e]ach house shall determine the rules of its own proceedings."  N.Y. Const., art. III, § 9.

* Accordingly, the Constitution requires that the Senate alone must determine and apply the rules of its own proceedings.

* The Assembly cannot legally collaterally challenge Senate proceedings.

     * Once the Presiding Officer of the Senate certifies on a bill jacket that the Senate has passed a bill, the Assembly must consider the bill passed. See Mason's § 760(6).

     * The Constitution and the Court of Appeals have made clear that the Assembly has no discretion but to present such bills to the governor for executive action.  King v. Cuomo, 81 N.Y. 2d 247 (1993).

* The Governor must accept these bills as properly passed by the Senate.  (He can, of course, veto the bills). The Constitution is clear that upon presentment to the Governor of bills passed by both Houses, the Governor must sign, veto or withhold action on such bills.  These options do not include challenging the validity of legislative action on bills: the signature of the Presiding Officer on the bill jacket is conclusive proof of passage.  See Legislative Law § 40.

To my eyes, it looks like they did actually stumble upon a quorum yesterday thanks to Senator Padavan. Padavan or any of the other GOP + Pedro Espada "reform coalition" types could have challenged the quorum at any time. They didn't.

Also it looks to be clear that the Assembly doesn't really have the power to decide which laws passed by the Senate it will choose to forward to the Governor.

Can anyone tell me where I am wrong about this?

Putney Swope :: The "Cup of Coffee Coup": The Dems make their case and it's good.
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if you think this is a good case (4.00 / 3)
you're not looking in the right place.

This may stand a legal test.  We'll only get to find out if the Assembly and Governor go along and declare the bills passed, after which I'm certain we'll get to hear challenges.

As a political matter, though, this is a trainwreck of immeasurable scope.  You want a story voters can mock for the next decade or so?  A story voters can use to mock DEMOCRATS?

This is that.  If these are really the rules, then the rules we're using are insane.  And that makes us look incredibly stupid.

Incredibly stupid enough to cost us the chamber in the future?  I think it might just be.


I make no claim that the rules (4.00 / 1)
are not completely insane. They are and everybody knows it. But the fact of the matter is, even by those admittedly crazy and stupid rules, what happened yesterday looks to be kosher.

I agree it's all a trainwreck, but this little "accident" or whatever could maybe help bring this thing closer to being over. At a minimum, some very key legislation could be saved.

And hey. If the mocking to come helps these people realize just how stupid the rules are and that they should get off their butts and change them, then so be it.

I'm not gonna rock the boat. Rockin' the boat's a drag. What you do is sink the boat!
- Truth and Soul, Inc.


[ Parent ]
I don't think this CAN bring things closer to done, though (4.00 / 1)
unless your definition of 'done' is endless litigation and a whole new cycle of violence in Albany.

That may, of course, be exactly what we need, heightening the contradictions to a new level of absurdity that threatens the entire structure...

Which would fit pretty nicely with an earlier Putney Swope:

"The changes I'm going to make will be minimal. I'm not gonna rock the boat. Rockin' the boat's a drag. What you do is sink the boat! And there's no sense sinkin' nothin' unless you can salvage with productive alternatives. And brothers, you can't change nothin' with rhetoric and slogans. Because if a man's really got the truth in his pocket, he doesn't talk about it. He hangs it out on a shingle where people can see it. So from now on, the name of this agency is TRUTH and SOUL."


[ Parent ]
Would voters really be upset by this? (0.00 / 0)
Are voters really going to be upset that the Democrats found a way to get things done, operating within the rule of law, after all of this turmoil and (as the Dems would claim, anyway) many good-faith attempts at negotiation with the Republicans?

[ Parent ]
Better question (4.00 / 3)
If this holds, would not the dueling chamber day count as well, in which all were present but the Democrats talked over the "coalition?"

It's a big mess.


[ Parent ]
the legalism (0.00 / 0)
Good point, but who in the state has the will to cut through all the crap?  I'm not sensing any kind of alarm in Albany (judicial, governmental) here, just a sort of "Well, some little twist will happen to sort it all out for the time being."  (The "minor event" in this case being Padavan doddering through the chamber looking for the john, or whatever he was doing.)

The legalism is like a thin skin stretched over a rotten frame.  To me, it's not so much "can we tease out some legality here" but how much time are we wasting trying to hold the skin together over the bag of bones (ie the democratic governance).

I think most everyone in NY has simply forgotten what democracy looks like (or smells like).  I don't even know if the citizens of this state believe in the efficacy of strongmen any more - after the Spitzer debacle.  

No one in Albany has any real power to wield.  There may be no one able to fill the role of knight in shining armor (in 2010) because that role may no longer be relevant?  I sure hope Sheldon Silver is pulling some of his super special secret strings, somewhere.  Somebody?  somebody?  Bueller?  Bueller?


[ Parent ]
Simonstl nailed it. Parsing law =/= good politics. (4.00 / 1)
This move once again made our party look petty and immature.

Whatever the narrow legal interpretation of the GOP Senator's stroll through the Chamber, trying to say "Aha! We have a quorum! Quick, pass bills!" is not an adult way of governing.

Like the move to lock the Chamber doors, or the turning out of the lights when the GOP took control, this only makes Democrats look as small and petty and juvenile as the Republicans.


[ Parent ]
Something actually got done.... (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
You got a better idea? (0.00 / 0)
I mean, short of armed insurrection?

[ Parent ]
Armed insurrection is starting to sound good at this point. (0.00 / 0)
Count me in.

Seriously, as I've said before, I see no reason to assume that the State Senate is going to do anything other than engage in gridlock for the forseeable future.  


[ Parent ]
but... (4.00 / 2)
1)  The Majority Leader needs to call conference.  While I know that Smith can make a strong case as to why he's still majority leader, Skelos can indeed make a feasible case as well.  If Skelos isn't the majority leader, then this was just a bunch of Senators sitting in a room talking to each other.

2)  If this is being counted as a quorum, why aren't they counting last Tuesday's session, when all 62 Senators were in the chamber?  This smacks me as a desperate last minute attempt to say they did something.  


I think this should be decided in the courts (4.00 / 1)
And I know a bunch of lawyers in Minnesota who are looking for some work right now.  

"Generic comment signature."

Interesting. (4.00 / 1)
But not a good case. Legalistic whining, which is what this is, isn't going to win this for them. Going to the public on specific issues, just might. New Yorkers understand that this is just the newest iteration of the bullshit for which Albany is infamous.  

"stumbled upon" (4.00 / 1)
Great verb choice.  New heights of dysfunctional governance: from time to time, you may stuble upon a quorum and vote on bill.....

as an outsider looking in... (0.00 / 0)
...i can't imagine how the "fast roll call" can be sold to voters as "your representatives acting in your best interests".

as other commenters have noted, this might be legal--but it stinks to high heaven, and voters will probably smell the ugly way too easily for the good of incumbents.

"The Pilgrims Were Not Illegal Aliens"- Bart Simpson writing on the chalkboard.


I do not know the law very well (0.00 / 0)
Couldn't we recall a Senator or two? If 80+% of voters really are dissatisfied, it might actually work if it is legal. Start with Espada.  

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