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Redistricting New York

by: silver spring

Sun Nov 29, 2009 at 20:00:43 PM EST


(This diary is cross-posted on the Swing State Project and the Albany Project.)

Using Dave's Redistricting Application (on the Swing State Project) I have drawn a plan for the state of New York.  Already, 27 out of 29 Representatives are Democrats.  However, the state is set to lose one seat in the 2012 redistricting, and several current Democrats hold marginal districts.  

silver spring :: Redistricting New York
This plan tries to eliminate the remaining two Republicans.  NY-26, held by Christopher Lee in the western part of the state, is divided up among neighboring districts (and those districts themselves are drawn in a way which still favors Democrats) while Peter King's district, NY-3 on Long Island, is made considerably more Democratic, whereby he will have a harder time getting re-elected.  At the same time, currently marginal districts, like NY-1, NY-13, NY-19, NY-20, NY-23 and NY-24 are made more Democratic.  NY-29, Eric Massa's district, is renumbered NY-26 (as the 29th seat is eliminated because of reapportionment) and that district also becomes more Democratic.

Under the plan here, ALL districts in New York state voted by at least 54% for Obama and at most 45% for McCain.  This is possible because upstate New York (the area north of Westchester Co. and the less Democratic part of the state) voted approximately 54% for Obama, and 45% for McCain.  Therefore, it's possible to create all districts in upstate which are 54% Obama/45% McCain (or 54/44 or 55/44) if one draws the lines correctly.  I have managed to do so, while at the same time paying attention to incumbent protection and keeping the districts relatively compact (it took a while to get it just right).  Long Island (Nassau and Suffolk Counties) only voted about 53/46 Obama/McCain, but by extending parts of some districts into New York City, it's also possible to have all districts there at least 54/45 (in fact, only NY-1 and NY-3 are made to be 54/45; NY-2, NY-4 and NY-5 are all at least 57/42.  Staten Island-based NY-13 was, ofcourse, easy; all you have to do is combine parts of the current district with Manhattan.

I believe the 54/45 Obama/McCain margin for a safe Democratic district is applicable to New York.  If this were California, for example, I would not feel such a district safe at all.  But Obama's improvement on John Kerry was not that high in New York, and in a few districts Obama actually performed the same as or marginally worse than Kerry (NY-3, NY-5, NY-9).  The other thing is that Democrats have managed to win districts in the state which are currently significantly less Democratic than the 54/45 margin: NY-1 (52/48 Obama/McCain), NY-13 (49-51), NY-19 (51/48), NY-20 (51/48), NY-23 (52/47), NY-24 (51/48), NY-29 (48/51).  I feel that if Democrats can win these marginal seats in the state, then any district that's at least 54/45 should be safe.

Like with my redistricting plan for California, I include my "TTP" number here.  I feel that it's a good measure relating to incumbent protection -- something that has to be a significant factor in any realistic redistricting proposal.  (The "TTP" number is Territory Transfer Percentage, for lack of a better label.  It provides the percentage of the new district's territory, in terms of population, that was formerly a part of the current district.  So, for example, in NY-7, the "TTP" is 77.  The proposed district contains much of the same territory as the current district, and 77% of the new district's population was formerly a part of the old district; in other words, Joseph Crowley would be looking at a district where 77% of his new constituents are the same as his old constituents.)  I was aiming for a "TTP" score of at least 55 for each district, and was successful in all but two districts -- NY-6, which loses a lot of territory in order to make the new NY-3 more Democratic, and the new NY-26, which combines much of Eric Massa's current territory with parts of Chris Lee's district and parts of Buffalo currently in Louise Slaughter's NY-28.

Last but not least, this plan protects all minority-majority districts in the state.  The black percentage in several districts goes down a bit, but they are still drawn to ensure African-American representation.  (Demographic stats below include percentages for groups that total 10% or more of the population of a particular district).

MAP:

Photobucket

District 1:

Incumbent: Timothy Bishop
Current District:  Obama 52; McCain 48
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 71; hispanic 17
TTP: 69

The district continues to encompass the eastern half of Long Island, albeit some areas are new to the district.  NY-1 is made more Democratic by taking out very Republican Smithtown and more marginal areas in Brookhaven and then adding very Democratic areas in Islip.

District 2:  

Incumbent: Steve Israel
Current District:  Obama 56; McCain 43
Proposed District:  Obama 57; McCain 42
Demographics: white 63; black 16; hispanic 13
TTP: 61

The district is made marginally more Democratic as the lines are redrawn.  The new district is centered on Huntington and Babylon in western Suffolk Co. but also branches out east to include parts of Islip and Brookhaven and west to include parts of Oyster Bay and Hempstead in Suffolk Co.

District 3:  

Incumbent: Peter King
Current District:  Obama 47; McCain 52
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 66; black 21
TTP: 70

Much of the district remains the same.  What makes the reconfigured district considerably more Democratic is an arm (approximately one-fourth of the new district's population) that now extends into heavily African-American areas in Queens.

District 4:  

Incumbent: Carolyn McCarthy
Current District:  Obama 58; McCain 41
Proposed District:  Obama 59; McCain 40
Demographics: white 60; black 15; hispanic 13
TTP: 71

Remains similar to the current Nassau County district.  Some very Democratic areas in Hempstead are taken out to become part of the new NY-2.  To make up for the loss, NY-4 extends slightly into neighboring areas of Queens.  The result is a marginally more Democratic district.

District 5:  

Incumbent: Gary Ackerman
Current District:  Obama 63; McCain 36
Proposed District:  Obama 57; McCain 42
Demographics: white 48; asian 23; hispanic 23
TTP: 75

The new district continues to include most of the current territory in Queens and northern Nassau County.  It is extended eastward along the northern shore of Long Island, all the way to Smithtown.  The new lines drop the Democratic percentage, but at 57/42 Obama/McCain (and approximately 57/42 Kerry/Bush as well) the new district should be safe for us.

District 6:

Incumbent: Gregory Meeks
Current District:  Obama 89; McCain 11
Proposed District:  Obama 79; McCain 21
Demographics: black 45; white 22; hispanic 18; asian 10
TTP: 52

The new NY-6 contains most of the territory of the current NY-6.  Some African-American areas in the east are taken out to strengthen Long Island-based districts.  To make up for the loss, NY-6 extends west into African-American areas in Brooklyn.  The new NY-6 is 45% black versus 52% for the current district (using data from Dave's Application, not the 2000 census figures, as the numbers have changed over the decade), but the next largest ethnic/racial group, whites, are only at 22% in the district, so an African-American Representative is basically assured here.

District 7:  

Incumbent: Joseph Crowley
Current District:  Obama 79; McCain 20
Proposed District:  Obama 79; McCain 21
Demographics: hispanic 39; white 30; black 14; asian 13
TTP: 77

Remains very similar to the current district which stretches across parts of Queens and the Bronx.  The largest ethnic/racial group here are Hispanics (at 42% in the current district and 39% under the proposed lines).

District 8:  

Incumbent: Jerrold Nadler
Current District:  Obama 74; McCain 26
Proposed District:  Obama 65; McCain 34
Demographics: white 69; asian 15; hispanic 10
TTP: 59

The new district contains much of the same territory as the current district -- an interesting combination of very progressive areas in Manhattan and more conservative  parts of Brooklyn (large Orthodox Jewish population in that part of Brooklyn).

District 9:  

Incumbent: Anthony Weiner
Current District:  Obama 55; McCain 44
Proposed District:  Obama 64; McCain 35
Demographics: white 48; asian 24; hispanic 20
TTP: 58

The new NY-9 is more compact than the current NY-9 in that it's confined entirely to Queens.  The more conservative Orthodox Jewish areas in Brooklyn are taken out and the partisan numbers go up for the Democratic Party.

District 10:  

Incumbent: Edolphus Towns
Current District:  Obama 91; McCain 9
Proposed District:  Obama 84; McCain 15
Demographics: black 45; white 24; hispanic 22
TTP: 68

The new Brooklyn-based district is largely similar to the current one.  The black percentage goes down from 59% to 45% but, in circumstances similar to NY-6, continued representation by an African-American Congressman or Congresswoman is assured here.

District 11:  

Incumbent: Yvette Clarke
Current District:  Obama 91; McCain 9
Proposed District:  Obama 82; McCain 18
Demographics: black 47; white 34; hispanic 11
TTP: 76

See District 10 above.  The new district contains a vast majority of the current territory of NY-11.  The black percentage goes down from 56% to 47% but that is still enough to assure representation by an African-American.

District 12:  

Incumbent: Nydia Velázquez
Current District:  Obama 86; McCain 13
Proposed District:  Obama 86; McCain 13
Demographics: hispanic 45; white 25; asian 22
TTP: 85

The new district remains very similar to the current Hispanic-plurality one (the current district is about 47% Hispanic according to data in Dave's Application, while the new one is a couple points less Hispanic).

District 13:

Incumbent: Michael McMahon
Current District:  Obama 49; McCain 51
Proposed District:  Obama 59; McCain 40
Demographics: white 69; hispanic 13
TTP: 78

The new district combines all of Staten Island and parts of Brooklyn just over the Verrazano Bridge with very progressive areas in Manhattan (mostly the Upper West Side).  As you would guess, the Democratic percentage surges, even with less than a quarter of the new district's territory coming out of Manhattan.

District 14:  

Incumbent: Carolyn Maloney
Current District:  Obama 78; McCain 21
Proposed District:  Obama 81; McCain 18
Demographics: white 67; hispanic 14
TTP: 69

The new district is now confined entirely to Manhattan, as the Queens areas are taken out.  The district becomes marginally even more Democratic than the current progressive stronghold.

District 15:  

Incumbent: Charles Rangel
Current District:  Obama 93; McCain 6
Proposed District:  Obama 95; McCain 4
Demographics: hispanic 47; black 37; white 10
TTP: 63

New district is similarly centered on Harlem and other areas in northern Manhattan.  The district crosses over to encompass parts of the Bronx, and the African-American percentage goes up from 29% in the current district to 37% under the new lines (while the Hispanic percentage goes up slightly from 46% to 47%).

District 16:  

Incumbent: José Serrano
Current District:  Obama 95; McCain 5
Proposed District:  Obama 95; McCain 5
Demographics: hispanic 66; black 28
TTP: 95

Remains very, very similar to the current Bronx-based district.

District 17:

Incumbent: Eliot Engel
Current District:  Obama 72; McCain 28
Proposed District:  Obama 60; McCain 39
Demographics: white 59; black 18; hispanic 16
TTP: 67

The new district includes much of the same territory in the Bronx, and Westchester and Rockland Counties.  Parts of the Bronx are detached while the district expands outward into Orange County (this is geographically necessary, because of population shifts between New York City and the rest of the state).  The new district becomes a little less Democratic, but is still very safe.

District 18:  

Incumbent: Nita Lowey
Current District:  Obama 62; McCain 38
Proposed District:  Obama 61; McCain 37
Demographics: white 63; hispanic 19
TTP: 95

Westchester-based NY-18 remains very similar in shape and partisan preference to the current district.

District 19:  

Incumbent: John Hall
Current District:  Obama 51; McCain 48
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 74; hispanic 12
TTP: 62

The new district NY-19 becomes more Democratic as areas in Orange and Dutchess Counties are rearranged.

District 20:  

Incumbent: Scott Murphy
Current District:  Obama 51; McCain 48
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 88
TTP: 68

The district remains similar to the current one, but is made more Democratic, as more Republican areas (Greene Co. and part of Delaware Co.) are taken out, while part of Albany is added.

District 21:  

Incumbent: Paul Tonko
Current District:  Obama 58; McCain 40
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 87
TTP: 67

The new district continues to be centered on the Albany area.  It becomes less Democratic as it expands north and west into more conservative territory, but remains a safe seat.

District 22:  

Incumbent: Maurice Hinchey
Current District:  Obama 59; McCain 39
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 44
Demographics: white 85
TTP: 68

The new NY-22 is similar in many ways to the current one.  Progressive areas around   Ithaca/Cornell University are taken out to shore up the neighboring NY-24, but the Democratic percentage here still remains safe.

District 23:  

Incumbent: Bill Owens
Current District:  Obama 52; McCain 47
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 89
TTP: 69

The new district combines the more Democratic parts of the current NY-23 with Democratic territory around Rochester (as well as GOP-leaning but less-populated territory in Monroe Co., east of Rochester).  The overall Democratic percentage goes up by a few points.

District 24:  

Incumbent: Michael Arcuri
Current District:  Obama 51; McCain 48
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 86
TTP: 58

Arcuri had a close call during his 2008 re-election bid, so the more Democratic district created by this plan should help.

District 25:  

Incumbent: Daniel Maffei
Current District:  Obama 56; McCain 43
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 86
TTP: 56

NY-25 continues to include most of Syracuse and Onondaga Co. (although parts have been taken out to shore up the neighboring NY-24), and stretches west towards the suburbs of Rochester.

District 26:  

Incumbents: Eric Massa, Christopher Lee
Current District:  Obama 48; McCain 51 (current NY-29); Lee's district, current NY-26, is Obama 46; McCain 52
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 79; black 14
TTP: 44

This new district combines much of Massa's territory in NY-29 (44% of the new district), parts of Lee's (22% of the new district) and the part of Erie Co. that is currently in NY-28 (31% of the new district), with a small remainder coming out of the current NY-27.  It stretches from Massa's home in Corning to encompass parts of Buffalo currently in NY-28.  Lee's home is put into the new NY-26 but his district is split among neighboring ones (22% to the new NY-26 here, 40% to NY-28, and the remainder split between
NY-27, NY-25 and NY-23).

District 27:  

Incumbent: Brian Higgins
Current District:  Obama 54; McCain 44
Proposed District:  Obama 54; McCain 45
Demographics: white 88
TTP: 87

This Buffalo-based district remains very similar to the current configuration.

District 28:  

Incumbent: Louise Slaughter
Current District:  Obama 69; McCain 30
Proposed District:  Obama 55; McCain 44
Demographics: white 75; black 14
TTP: 56

The new district looks quite similar on a map (stretching from Rochester to Niagara Falls) but the Democratic percentage goes down as parts of Buffalo are taken out.  Nevertheless the seat remains safe for a Democrat.

So that's my plan for New York.  Thank you for any comments or suggestions.

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Disgusting. (4.00 / 4)
Why not spend your time trying to ensure district maps keep neighborhoods together and accurately connect voters to others from the same region rather than gerrymandering some lines that decrease the competitiveness of elections?  

While I, like most readers of this blog, tend to prefer Democratic candidates in Congressional races, I'd rather have good candidates win by the strength of their ideas and backgrounds than have 28 party-chosen individuals placed perpetually in seats they have no chance of losing.  


Yes - when districts are gerrymandered to be safe for a particular (4.00 / 4)
party, incumbents ending up worrying more about primaries from more right/left candidates than from a general election.

Incumbent protection also isn't to good, even though the House and Senate rely on seniority.

It's long been suggested having the census department divide up districts strictly by population.  Some will be majority one way or the other, simply based on the type of area.

This method encourages a more balanced candidates, since most candidates have to run in districts that have no significant party advantage.

Although Iowa does this, the likelihood of this happening in big states is slim to none, unless the practice was set up for all states at the same time.

As much as I would like to see most Representative districts drawn based on local needs (urban, suburban, rural), if no one else redistricts this way we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

Don't forget VA will redistrict to favor Republicans.  Two wrongs don't make a right, but in the real world that we live in, one has to be practical.

I'm not too worried about New Jersey - the legislation is Democratic & the state constitution is set up so that the  governor's power is not that strong.

HylasBrook


[ Parent ]
Incumbent protection is disastrous (0.00 / 0)
But seriously, the State Senate district boundaries are far more important than the Congressional district boundaries.  I think this sort of map is not only silly but misdirected.  If you're going to play hardball politics, make a map for the place where it matters.  Democrats are likely to have a permanent majority in the State Senate due simply to population shift -- it's hard to gerrymander it any more than it already is -- but that could be a tenuous majority filled with corrupt pols or a roaringly huge majority filled with decent representatives, partly depending on how bad the gerrymandering is.

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure whether to congratulate you or murder you in your sleep. (4.00 / 1)
Turning my home from a relatively compact albeit hideously gerrymandered Republican majority to a Democratic majority that stretches as far as Schuyler County? I'm conflicted.  

Oh good Gods. (4.00 / 3)
I just noticed you've got NY-23 now running all the way down to urban Rochester. For bleep's sake, man. How the hell do you expect the far end of these districts to get any respect or representation when you'd need a commuter flight to cross them?

My opinion: leave the map as close to where it currently is as is practical. It may not be ideal, but cases like NY-20 have shown that people will continue voting for a Democrat they're familiar with and like. Just trade us off some of Louise Slaughter's territory, say in exchange for the rest of Orleans and Monroe counties, to help balance out things in NY-26.


[ Parent ]
Since we are just speculating here, I'd suggest (4.00 / 1)
NY-21 keep all of Albany.  NY-20 can probably handle Troy (currently gerrmandered out to make NY-20 safe Republican.)

NY-21 should include Saratoga county (or the southern half of it.) A lot of the economic growth in the Albany area comes from the small business/tech oriented companies in southern Saratoga County.  Lot of people commute from Saratoga county into Albany, which makes it an economic unit.

For NY-20, Greene county should be in the district.  Much of the social services, community college, etc. in this area are "Columbia Greene."

NY-20 could keep Saratoga Springs (which it already has).  NY-20 would be a fitting mix of second home, rural light farming, and tourism.

NY-23 should be more contiguous, not less.  The problem is that the district is so lightly populated that it has to cover a large area to get the needed numbers.  Having Lewis, Herkimer, and Hamilton county in NY-23 gives it almost all of Adirondak park.  So NY-23 gets very rural, farming, tourism, state park/land management & the Saint Lawrence seaway & the Canadian border.  These fit well together.  (cities and towns in the northern tier do lots of business with Canada, so there is an economic tie that doesn't happen anywhere else in the state.)

Rochester should definitely be in one district, and not NY-23.

HylasBrook


[ Parent ]
My thought on NY-20 (0.00 / 0)
If the idea is to make it more Democratic, then I'd suggest putting Poughkeepsie in.  Poughkeepsie is in Hinchey's district and he can spare it.  Otherwise, 20 and 21 will always be a tag-team of Albany and it's all about balance.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Thoughts on NY-20 (0.00 / 0)
NY-20 could be made safe Democratic by picking up Troy.  Troy was gerrymandered out of NY-20 to make it a safe Republican district.

Either way, picking up Troy or Poughkeepsie would make sense since these cities are closely tied to southern NY-20.

Probably Troy would be better - NY-20 is contiguous to NY-21, so it would keep to the idea of economically related areas in one district.  Albany's Greater Metropolitan area encompasses Renssalear, Columbia and Green County anyhow, so Troy would not be a problem to include in NY-20.  Doesn't totally fit with the tourism, second home, and light farming, but makes better sense than Poughkeepsi.

Poughkeepsie is more tied to the NYC metropolitan area, since the Metro North line ends there & people from Poughkeepsie to commute to NYC to work.

HylasBrook


[ Parent ]
This whole area (0.00 / 0)
Is going to have to be drastically reworked - after playing with that application a bit, I think that it's nearly impossible to keep anything resembling the current lines.

[ Parent ]
While I applaud the work you put into this (4.00 / 1)
I agree with the other two comments so far.  Gerrymandered districts aren't good for the people, whether they're drawn to favor Republicans or Democrats.

New Yorkers against Harold Ford

Keeping representation for cities intact (0.00 / 0)
Keeping representation for cities intact should be a top priority.  Buffalo has enough problems without breaking it into two districts and lumping part of it with very rural counties.  

Actually I disagree on this point. (4.00 / 2)
I think that slicing up cities and rural areas to group them together is a good thing. It encourages representatives to have balanced interests. Somebody who just represented urban Buffalo wouldn't have any reason to be on the right side with regard to dairy pricing, and somebody who just represents the cornfields and foothills won't care about city jobs and education.

By diversifying the territory of a congresscritter, you get more people working on a common set of problems.


[ Parent ]
or (4.00 / 1)
you get two districts where both elected officials have 60% of their district in the city and 40% in the surrounding rural areas, and both cater to the urbanites and ignore everyone else

[ Parent ]
If we're going to gerrymander, do it (4.00 / 1)
by county lines and economic systems.  This state varies from major metropolis, to urban, suburban, to rural farming, tourism and second homes.  One needs a significantly different background and experience to serve any of these.

Since most of these areas are contiguous, it makes sense to divide the state up on county/demographic lines.

Sometimes we'd have to mix urban with rural to get the right numbers, but most of the districts could be economically homogenous.

HylasBrook


[ Parent ]
Disagree totally (0.00 / 0)
Better Buffalo has two congresspersons fighting for it than one.

[ Parent ]
pls. keep in mind that Buffalo is ... (0.00 / 0)
currently broken up into two districts.  The new map here preserves the split exactly as it currently is (only instead of being split between NY-27 and NY-28 as it currently is, under this map it's NY-27 and NY-26) ...

[ Parent ]
buffalo (0.00 / 0)
If Buffalo is an example of the "good" that comes from having 2 congress people representing its issues along with a vast district of rural issues, I think that proves my first point.  Don't break up the cities.  

[ Parent ]
This is pretty awful (4.00 / 1)
I recognize that your goal here is to make every seat Democratic.  That being said, there has GOT to be a better way to do it than this.  Sending Peter King's seat crawling into Queens just for more African Americans?  Sending NY-23 to Rochester?  Sheesh!

That being said, there are a few ideas I like.  Hinchey's district is fabulously Democratic so I would definitely split it up.  If I had my way, I would consider cutting this district because other than the loss of Hinchey, it would benefit everyone around him.  Send Ithaca to Massa, Binghamton to Arcuri, Newburg/Middletown/Monticello to Hall and Poughkeepsie to Murphy.  

I believe there are multiple ways we can draw seats that both favor Democrats AND are contiguous districts.  All of the suggestions I make about what you could do if you were to split NY-22 up would be contiguous.  But there's only so much you can do.  If you have to send NY-23 to Rochester to make it a safe Democratic seat, then maybe that means it won't be a safe Democratic seat.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


Our friends at Swing State Project think we're naive (4.00 / 2)
I'd say we're principled.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


we're not a swing state (4.00 / 2)
And this kind of thinking makes our problems worse.

We already have lots of voters, including lots of Democratic voters, who think their vote doesn't count.  They already see the fix as being in.

Just having this conversation makes that fix seem even more real.


[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 1)
That's what I told them over there.  We don't need to game the system, especially considering we've won all but 2 seats with a map that protected incumbents and some Republicans.  I think the right Democrat can win literally any Congressional seat in New York.  We're not going to hurt ourself by drawing a legitimate map.  Rather, we help all of us by having better seats, competitive elections, and better representatives (I'd argue that the best representatives we have in the state are the ones who had to run in competitive elections).  

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
More important to redistrict the State Senate. (0.00 / 0)
There's a nightmare of gerrymandering.  Just giving it halfway-sensible borders would eliminate the Joe Bruno Majority which remains.

[ Parent ]
Much of this assumes that (4.00 / 1)
1) Democrats will continue to hold the State Senate; and 2) the Census data will come out as you're projecting.

I don't consider either of those to be safe assumptions. Given the ineptitude of the current Senate, it's not beyond the bounds of reason to see it revert to Republican control next year. I'm also not sure that, given the economy, that we'll only lose one seat - or that the population shifts might be more dramatic than is planned.

That's besides my distaste for excessive gerrymandering to create safe seats, in any party.  


I'm not sure this creates safe seats. (4.00 / 2)
Really, it makes 12 districts that are very winnable by Republicans in a Sea Change Election.

[ Parent ]
You know who hates you today? (4.00 / 1)
Black people.

You've basically taken them and put them in massively white districts where they will be completely outnumbered.

I appreciate the effort, but in the words of Charles Barkley, Turrible.


umm .. what districts are you talking about ? (0.00 / 0)
the new map here preserves every single African-American-represented district (although the black percentage goes down in them) and also in NY-15 the black percentage goes up from the current 30% to 37% under the new lines which may help Rangel or another African-American candidate in the future.

[ Parent ]
Your NY-26, for example. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
but the current map does .. (0.00 / 0)
the same thing ...

[ Parent ]
Not true (0.00 / 0)
Currently its lumped in with Niagara Falls and Urban Rochester

[ Parent ]
And by it (0.00 / 0)
I mean Buffalo's urban core

[ Parent ]
NY-3 is a good example of that (0.00 / 0)
Yea, that's exactly what you did to try to gerrymander King out of his seat.  I'm not sure about the demographics you used in McMahon's seat in NY-13 but that's an example too.  

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
As an African-American, I think that we''ve gotten (0.00 / 0)
to the point where there may not need to be as many African-American majority districts.  This isn't the South.
Whites & Latinos have voted for AA candidates city wide and state wide.

I wouldn't go overboard on this because LI and Staten Island aren't quite the south, but I don't see them voting for a black Democrat.

HylasBrook


[ Parent ]
What tools? (4.00 / 1)
How did you do it?

Do you have tools that break down by ED the population and other demographic (voting? others?) parameters?

Do they automate the creation of districts?

Are they publicly accessible?


There is some application available (0.00 / 0)
through Swing State Project.  I haven't been able to find it but it's available somewhere.  If someone can find it and share, I think some of us should make our own maps with more contiguous districts, i.e. the way good government maps should look like.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
This discussion came up a while back (0.00 / 0)
and some folks posted their own projections.  I did one up, but never got around to posting it (upstate only).  But now that the discussion has come back up, maybe I'll hunt that down and post it.

New Yorkers against Harold Ford

[ Parent ]
Yes, I was one of those who posted (0.00 / 0)
But the ones we were posting back then were pretty broad.  This application gives you a lot of great voter data so you can make much more precise maps.  As we get closer to redistricting, the discussion will definitely come up again.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Here it is (4.00 / 1)
http://gardow.com/davebradlee/...

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
this (4.00 / 2)
is some of the most idiotic and moronic shit ive ever read. the purpose of redistricting isnt to elect democrats.

this type of shit takes away from the albany project imho.  


FYI (4.00 / 3)
This is not representative of TAP.  This is an outside commenter and it was put on the front page, I assume, because it's an interesting discussion.  You can see by the comments that most of us here are against this type of nonsense.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
I can't stand by and watch this happen (4.00 / 2)
The people who live in my area want a Congressional District that represents us. My district, under this map, would create a crappy populist quilt that's even more twisted and gerrymandered than it was before. No thank you.  

"Generic comment signature."

What about the VRA districts? (0.00 / 0)
Actually, I took a look at the districts you created, and there are multiple section 5 (Civil Rights Act) violations, including in Districts 6 and 11, where you got rid of African-American and Latino (respectively) effective voting majorities. So no, this is totally not possible. The state of New York would get sued, the lawsuit would be successful, and the plan would have to be redone.

District 10 too (0.00 / 0)
Only Brooklyn, Manhattan and the Bronx are subject to Section 5, but this speaks to my earlier point about not pulling African Americans into overwhelmingly white districts to pad Democratic numbers.

[ Parent ]
Rotten boroughs, all (4.00 / 2)
I'm pleased to see that most folks at TAP are appalled by this kind of gerrymandering.

Congressional districts should be drawn with the best interests of voters -- not elected officials -- in mind.

Radical idea, this we-the-people thing.  


Guys, every one of you commenting need to take a breath (0.00 / 0)
silver spring has been doing this a while now on The Swing State Project,silver spring is not advocating anti progressive gerrymandering as much as he is doing an exercise on reversing what the Republican controlled 2000 census redistricting did to the Democrats. silver spring has shown us how, if we did control gerrymandering in each state, which we do not, we can maximize a Democratic Congress that can win a permanent majority.  This is the spirit in which you should take silver spring excellent hard and thoughtful work.  It is a lot like a baseball stove pipe league where we have a lot of fun talking about trades, 90% of which never happen.  It is a fun exercise and at the same time a fantasy I would have to shove 2000 census gerrymandering back into Tom Delays face although he got enough shoved back in his face with his Dancing with the Stars appearance!

sorry, this is a lousy thing to fantasize about (4.00 / 2)
and justifying it by saying that the Republicans did it too doesn't make it any better.

If you want to alienate voters by sharing political fantasies, this is a brilliant way to do it.

The spirit in which to take silver spring's work is simple: Just Say No.

See?  I took a deep breath and that's what came out on the exhale.  

Now can we maybe talk about how to connect New York State voters to their political interests, instead of dreaming about how to get the voters to do what we want, not what they want?


[ Parent ]
WNY Redistricting (4.00 / 2)
I would put money on this - or something really, really close to this - being what happens in WNY. Erie, Niagara, Chautauqua, Wyoming, Genesee, and Orleans make two districts almost perfectly - if you take out the town of LeRoy, it is perfect, and LeRoy can comfortably be a part of a Rochester Congressperson's region, as it identifies with Rochester better as it is. I split it on county lines, except in Erie County, where I put the Northtowns (except Cheektowaga) in the Northern district and the Southtowns in the Southern district. Local politics will dictate that South Buffalo and the majority-Black areas go into Higgins district, while North Buffalo will go into the Northern district. The third district is unfinished, but will presumably include either part of Rochester or a number of rural counties.

WNY Map:

One last thought: Steuben County will be tricky in Central NY. Hornell fits better in the Buffalo/Rochester area, while Corning better fits with Elmira. The county best seems split to me.

Future maps of NYS Redistricting might as well start with this. ;)


I have to say, I really like the looks of that. (4.00 / 1)
I've been saying for awhile that for western New York, Louise Slaughter's current district makes the most sense to completely rewrite. It's certainly the most tortuously drawn of all the local districts. By rolling some of it into the current NY-26 and NY-29, it balances out both those districts, and you're left with competitive races that are also fairly and logically drawn. Livingston County gets to be attached to Rochester, which is I know what a bunch of people over there really want. The Buffalo area retains it's two congressional reps, but without the division of the suburbs off into yet another district. And each district is, if not compact in the case of the new NY-29 equivalent, no worse than it is right now.  

[ Parent ]
A map like this is actually GOOD for democracy (4.00 / 2)
This is a great exercise in experimenting with the numbers. There may be legal problems with some of the current minority-majority districts, but overall, I hope we maintain our Senate majority and can draw a map like this.

Some responses to the critics:

1) Many people seem to be saying that neat, compact, and contiguous districts are the (small d) democratic ideal. Why is that? What makes that geographic factor any less arbitrary that drawing lines by party...or by age or by incumbent protection? Evidence shows that these kinds of districts are actually inherently bad for Democrats because they cram all the Democratic city folks into compact urban districts, leaving lots of other districts to be won by Republicans. Here's a link with that evidence:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...

2) Along the lines of the above, I see a few critics complaining their rural interests will be subsumed by urban interests. But what we've traditionally seen, according to the compact-contiguous data above and in the U.S. Senate, is rural voters have disproportionate power in American politics. I'll admit that districts should be relatively compact, but not at the expense of disenfranchising city voters by making their elections meaningless and giving disproportionate power to rural interests.

3) Many people are saying that drawing lines like this rigs the game in favor of the Dems, creating a bunch of districts that can only be contested in primaries. I disagree. A 54% Obama district is not at all solidly Democratic--and this is why a map like this will never pass through a Democratic legislature. There are too many incumbents who want a bigger padding on their margin than this, especially upstate where a lot of Obama voters may typically vote Republican or swing with each election.

I would argue that by creating districts that are so slightly advantaged towards Democrats, this is the best possible map for Democrats and (lower case) democrats. We will see lots of competitive races each year. Democratic candidates will have a good chance of winning each time, which favors the policies we want to see enacted, but they will still have to answer to the voters, keeping them from becoming too corrupt.

The likely alternative to a map like this is one that protects incumbents. I recall that when redistricting happened in California in 2002, the Democratic legislature and governor could have drawn a map like the one on this page. There would have been an overwhelming number of Democratic leaning districts with very few safe Dem districts. They figured that with a map like this, they would have been able to have a 2/3 majority in both houses, breaking the structural barriers in California politics that have crippled the state. Instead, they chose to protect incumbents, allowing Republicans to keep more seats, and the state has gotten closer to bankruptcy each year as the Republicans refuse to act constructively in good faith to solve the state's problems.

The way I see it, the Dems in the legislature will similarly try to protect incumbents. The Dem rank-and-file have two alternatives.

1) Pressure them to create an independent process that somehow removes redistricting from politics and places it in the hands of a judge or independent commission. The goo goos (and I imagine many of the readers here) like this, and I typically consider myself a goo goo. But such a process will inevitably favor the totally arbitrary compact and contiguous redistricting that is bad for Democrats and bad for urban voters and interests.

2) Pressure them to create a map similar to the one on this page which tries to maximize the Democratic advantage at the expense of a few super-safe Dem districts. My money is on this alternative and I hope the Working Families Party and other organizations line up behind this alternative. Small "d" democracy will be enhanced by adding more competitive districts and big "D" Democrats will be more likely to dominate our state Congressional seats, which means we'll have a better chance at seeing the progressive policies we care about enacted in D.C.  


NY-13 (0.00 / 0)
Isn't even safe for McMahon in 2010.  If the Republican Party comes up with a valid candidate (unlike the jerk they ran in 2008) or if Fossella runs again, McMahon is in serious trouble.  Therefore, you'll have another Downstate Republican.  The only way to make this district more Dem leaning is to break up the Staten Island part of the District since they control 3/4ths of the vote and will vote Republican if there is a decent candidate from that party.  

Also, your redistricting is based on the Democratic Party retaining control but what happens if the Republicans are in charge?    


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