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Marriage Equality Debate And Vote Tonight: Will It Pass?

by: robert.harding

Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 20:54:33 PM EST


UPDATE: Senate adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10 a.m.

All signs are pointing to the New York State Senate voting on the Marriage Equality Act (S4401) tonight. The debate and vote won't take place until late tonight, but multiple sources are telling me it is going to happen.

(You can watch the live debate here.)

And the best part? It just might pass.

The historic nature of this bill won't be lost on the Assembly either. Assemblyman Danny O'Donnell, who is the sponsor of the Assembly version of the bill, said earlier today that his chamber will pass marriage equality again which will set the stage for the Senate later tonight.

It is the Senate where the bill faces uncertainty. Sen. Ruben Diaz Sr. - a vocal opponent of marriage equality based on his religious beliefs - has resorted to prayer. He has tried to stand in the way of a vote in the past, but the fact he is now praying means that a vote is not only coming, but a real chance at passing.

So what does this bill need to pass? There are no less than 22 votes for the bill right now. Those votes are all Democrats. Sponsor of the bill Tom Duane and 19 co-sponsors: Senators Adams, Breslin, Dilan, Espada, Craig Johnson, Klein, Krueger, Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker, Perkins, Savino, Schneiderman, Serrano, Squadron, Stavisky, Stewart-Cousins, Hassell-Thompson and Thompson. In addition to those 20, the two leaders of the Democratic conference, John Sampson and Malcolm Smith, are supporting the bill.

That leaves 10 votes needed and a lot of uncertainty.

In May, Nate Silver whipped the votes for marriage equality. He found what we know: This is an uphill battle. There are at least two definite no votes in the Senate Democratic conference: The aforementioned Diaz and Darrel Aubertine, who is a conservative on the social issues (he is also anti-choice). Silver listed five Democrats - Aubertine, Diaz, Shirley Huntley, George Onorato and Bill Stachowski - who were on the record as opposed to marriage equality. However, because of the nature of this vote, there could be at least one of those who are opposed that will vote in the affirmative.

The Republicans have at least 20 members in their conference who will vote against the bill in addition to the two Democrats who are certain no votes. That means there are 18 members who are up in the air. Some will certainly be no votes. Others will be yes votes.

The 18 undecideds are:

DEMOCRATS

- Brian Foley. Foley has been on the fence about marriage equality and has been undecided on the issue since campaigning for the seat in 2008. But when the time comes, he could be a yes vote. It has been said that out of all the undecideds on the Democratic side, he is one of the ones that will vote yes.

- Shirley Huntley. While she is listed as a no, that was in May. This is December. Things can change and a vote for marriage equality would be helpful for her in a conference that is ready to replace her with someone better.

- George Onorato. Onorato has faced protests over his opposition or undecided status. That pressure could turn him into a yes vote.

- Hiram Monserrate. Monserrate isn't exactly beloved. But his vote would be important. He is one of the few representatives from Queens where a vote on marriage equality is possible. Other Hispanic members (including Espada) are supportive. Monserrate might be as well.

- Joseph Addabbo. He is on record as saying he believes there are other important issues to discuss prior to marriage equality. Whether that means he is against equal rights is another issue. He replaced a man who was in opposition, so voting for this bill will mean that 2008 wasn't a loss for those who fought for change and made Addabbo one of two Democrats to overtake Republican incumbents in November (Foley was the other).

- Carl Kruger. Kruger isn't the best Democrat in this conference (although Espada and Monserrate have made him look like a party loyalist over the last several months) but he knows a key vote when he sees it. He has been out in front, as finance chairman, on the issues with the governor's DRP. So if he gets what he wants with the DRP, maybe that will give him the motivation he needs to vote for marriage equality.

- David Valesky. He could be a no, but his leadership position in the Senate might change that. The upstate delegation is split on this and Valesky could give us a third vote from upstate. That would be important.

- Bill Stachowski. He is another whose weak showing in the 2008 elections would be helped by a vote for marriage equality vote. He needs to show that he will be there when it counts and this is a way for him to do that. He is previously a no against it (citing religious reasons) but has kept an open mind on the issue. We need a yes vote from him. This is important.

REPUBLICANS

- Long Island senators: Kenneth LaValle, John Flanagan, Owen Johnson, Kemp Hannon, Charles Fuschillo. Newsday found that six of the nine Long Island senators opposes marriage equality. That means some of these Republicans listed as undecided will be no votes. However, Owen Johnson is still on the fence. So while those Long Island senators (if their votes hold) make it tougher to pass the marriage equality bill, the door is still open.

- Andrew Lanza. Lanza is one of the few Republicans in New York City and might be one of the easier Republicans to bag as a yes vote. His vote, like others, is up in the air but he could be one vote in our column.

- Vincent Leibell. With Leibell getting a primary challenge from Greg Ball, will Leibell move to the right and vote against this? Or would he have voted against it anyway? It's hard to say, but he is another who could be a yes vote under normal circumstances, but might bail on this vote to save his political career.

- Betty Little. Little is leaning no, but would be one of the likely Republicans to vote yes. She is fairly moderate and just might be a surprise vote in favor of the bill.

- Jim Alesi. He is the only Republican on record as a yes vote giving us no less than 23 YES VOTES.

- Cathy Young. Being from a conservative upstate district, it won't be surprising if Young votes no. That is the likely vote, but she might pull a rabbit out of the hat.

My prediction? I say it passes one of two ways:

(1) We get 32 or 33 votes, mostly Democrats but also a few surprise Republicans (i.e. Lanza, Little, etc.). The number of undecided Democrats could also give us a higher number, especially if there are Republicans who will vote for this bill.

(2) We get 31 votes and Lieutenant Governor Richard Ravitch is called in to cast the tie-breaking vote. What a monumental situation that would be, given the controversy surrounding his appointment.

Will it pass? Possibly. Insiders are saying it is likely. We'll see what happens tonight.

robert.harding :: Marriage Equality Debate And Vote Tonight: Will It Pass?
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hmm (0.00 / 0)
very interesting

2 things:

1- why did they pull it off until tomorrow? was it to work marriage votes? was it to work deficit votes? this delay makes me wonder... (or they just want to get paid another day for being in Albany...)

2- the possibility of 31/31/Ravitch seems very eerily possible... would that open up GOP litigation against the bill? Ie. improperly passed due to an "illegal" lt gov?


I don't see how 2 could be litigated (0.00 / 0)
He's the LG. End of story.  

[ Parent ]
wellll (0.00 / 0)
well Diaz, DeFrancisco, and others might throw a fit if it passes... and some national groups will try anything to stop marriage equality

just a probing thought


[ Parent ]
The nice thing (0.00 / 0)
In New York, there are no referenda on legislation, so they can't have a Prop X.

[ Parent ]
It will absolutely go to court (0.00 / 0)
What happens there, who knows. But 100% it goes to court.

[ Parent ]
It takes 32 (0.00 / 0)
There are no ties on legislation; either it gets 32 yes votes or it fails.

[ Parent ]
true (0.00 / 0)
i was referring to a 31/31 situation where Ravitch would cast the deciding vote

good thing about the no referendum though- and if it does go to court, the court said leave it up to the legs, and they'll prolly affirm that and say "the leg has spoken"


[ Parent ]
Does the LG not get a casting vote? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
I think (0.00 / 0)
the LG only has a vote if the situation is tied. So if the bill is split 31/31, (for a total of 62 votes) then and only then he would cast a ballot to break the tie

unless i'm totally wrong? correct me if i am


[ Parent ]
Well, that's exactly what I mean. That's a casting vote. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Article 4, Section 6 (0.00 / 0)
The lieutenant-governor shall be the president of the senate but shall have only a casting vote therein

So there you go. If the senate is tied, Ravitch can break it. He is LG, so I don't understand why there is any further debate.  


[ Parent ]
Wrong (0.00 / 0)
I made this mistake (on TAP), so I looked it up before.

Article 3, Section 14 reads in part, "nor shall any bill be passed or become
a law, except by the assent of a majority of the members elected to each
branch of the legislature."  In other words, it needs 76 Assembly votes and 32 Senate votes, period.

The Lt. Gov. gets no "casting vote" on legislative matters, only on procedural matters (such as who is the majority leader).


[ Parent ]
You are correct. (0.00 / 0)
Procedural matters only. Not on legislation...which is why Monserrate being booted will make Dem life hell in the chamber. They would only have 31 votes and you need 32 on legislation.

We've got some work ahead of us.

[ Parent ]
I'd be interested to see if that point has ever been litigated (0.00 / 0)
Because it seems to me that your reconciliation of the language isn't the only possible construction. It could well be that when the LG is allowed to vote, he can be part of the majority.  

[ Parent ]
Couple of thoughts on NYC senators (0.00 / 0)
Joe Addabbo promised during the campaign to vote yes, so I expect that he will.  I'm pretty sure that it isn't an easy vote for him, but I have confidence.

On June 7, at the Queens Pride Parade, a Monserrate staffer said only that Monserrate "will not vote no." He refused to be tied down past that, which might have been worrying since an abstention is the practical equivalent of a "no" vote -- but note the date, one day before the insanity began, so...

I would be very pleasantly surprised if Huntley voted "yes."

From what I hear, Lanza is a highly probably "yes" vote.


To add to Dan's analysis (0.00 / 0)
Which, as always, is quite thorough:

Foley is probably a yes.  This isn't the type of red-meat issue that plays as strongly in his district.  

Huntley would definitely be a surprise.  She is quite crotchety and her "no" was not even a maybe, it was an absolute no.  I'd be more hopeful for Onorato, partially because my friend above me and some of his colleagues have done so much work to pressure Onorato into voting yes.

Lanza also makes sense as a yes.

The assumption above is that Leibell is running in a primary against Ball.  All indications are that he's retiring to take the Putnam County Executive's office.  If that's the case, he would be free to "vote his conscience".  Not sure what that would end up meaning, but he's one of the Republicans we have to have if we're going to win this.

Is there any chance with Padavan?

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Wow, nevermind on Padavan (0.00 / 0)
Did a quick search and was rudely awakened of the fact that Senator Padavan is quite the vocal opponent of marriage equality.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Another reason for him to go down (0.00 / 0)
n/t

We've got some work ahead of us.

[ Parent ]
Apparently the delay (0.00 / 0)
Is because Senator Thompson decided to skip town early for a fundraiser in Buffalo, and they didn't have the votes without him.

Sigh (4.00 / 1)
Even when the Senate looks like it's going to do the right thing, someone has to go and prove the same damn point of how dysfunctional, petty, and ridiculous our Senate is.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Dysfunctional? (0.00 / 0)
I'll bet you that Thompson's fundraiser went exactly as planned.  The wheels turn very well, and raising money is always more important than getting the job done -- after all, getting the job done doesn't get anyone reelected.

[ Parent ]
the last line of the above article (0.00 / 0)
says" "Will it pass? Possibly. Insiders are saying it is likely. We'll see what happens tonight."

That last line sort of contradicts most of the rest of the story which indicates that it's pretty much up in the air at this point. It would be nice when articles cite "insiders" if they would elaborate on that insider thinking a bit more. Could you do so, without violating and confidentiality by revealing names?

It would be interesting to know whether these are Republican or Democratic insiders and why they think it's more likely to pass than fail.

In addition: While someone above mentioned that there would be a lot of pressure from radical right wing extremists (i.e. Republican't's) against this measure, my guess is that there should be a fair amount of pressure from pro-GLBT groups.

One of the most interesting things to me would be to know in which Republican Senate districts the GLBT community seems to be most active, in terms of numbers and clout. After all, in politics a good rule of thumb is to...follow the numbers...if the number of GLBT constituents (and money) is signficant enough that could be a factor, no?


The LGBT community has been doing the research (4.00 / 2)
There was a great NYT article about this in the spring and they pointed out how the community knew that Vinny Leibell's law practice does estate planning for gay couples and Alesi goes to a church that blesses same-sex couples.  So the community has done that research and the Republican votes in play are emanating from that knowledge.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority."


-William Jennings Bryan


[ Parent ]
Let's do our own count (0.00 / 0)
As I have it so far, Democrats likely to vote "no" include: Diaz, Huntley, Aubertine, with Stachowski, Valesky, Monserrate and Onorato "unknown".

Republicans who may vote "yes": Lanza, Alesi, Liebell, plus possibly one or two from Long Island.

If the four Dem "unknowns" (by my initial count) all vote yes, and the three likely Rep "yes" votes join them, we have 32.  But that's a big "if".

Who am I missing?


Valesky (0.00 / 0)
Valesky goes to yes

wow, 24-38? Worse than I expected (0.00 / 0)
Painful.

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