Another WTF Moment from Massa

I find it interesting (4.00 / 1)

that voting against a bill your party wants is considered a "positive."   The same idiots who are praising Massa for standing on principle are turning around and criticizing Murphy (who also voted against it) for crassly objecting to tax provisions which would impact the two major industries in his district.  I'm sure if he'd said "because it wasn't single payer" instead of that, they'd be gushing about him as well.  

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by: Norbrook @ Fri Feb 19, 2010 at 21:09:57 PM UTC

I would be careful with the "idiots" label... (4.00 / 1)

Since a lot of those people do have a legitimate position, as the health care reform bill passed in the House (and even moreso in the Senate) is weak.

I agree that it's better than nothing and will improve our system and I don't think (check that: I know) Massa's position is because it's not single payer. They weren't going to get single payer. We are far off of single payer. It's not going to happen now. He knew that. He wasn't looking for that. He was looking for a strong public option, which was lacking. (Yes, there was a public option in the House bill, but it was a weakened version.)

My problem with Massa's vote is that it's one of many votes against the party (and more importantly, against progressives) on some key issues. HP mentions below that he voted against cap and trade, among others.

I was at Netroots Nation when Massa announced he received the Wellstone Award. The essence of Paul Wellstone was that he did what he thought was right, not what he thought would get him elected. Right now, I think Massa is caught between the two. He wants to do what is right, but that's not always a vote that will help him get elected again.  

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by: robert.harding @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 04:39:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not the first time (4.00 / 3)

Massa has a pattern of this kind of vote (cap and trade is another, but there are more).  He seems to want to appear to have "pure" motives when talking to one sort of audience, but he often uses right-wing rhetoric to frame his votes.  You won't get anywhere trying to find someone to primary him, but I've certainly given him the last of my time and money.

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by: Historical Pessimist @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 00:00:24 AM UTC

This. (4.00 / 2)

You you hold out your "No" vote when you still have hope of changing the bill.  In the case of the upcoming HCR vote, this is it.  There is no more room to maneuver beyond what the Senate produces in reconciliation and Massa needs to be a "Yes".

We replaced Randy Kuhl in Congress to get Randy Kuhl's voting record.

Exactly.  I've said before that the final voting tally does not account for Massa's progressive regrets.  When it gets down to it, he is there for his vote, and his pontifications won't change the fact that he's become Randy Kuhl plus a liberal sob story and minus the post-dinner shotgun.

Again, it's a good thing I have more mature political judgment than Eric Massa, or this November I too would be ditching the "good" (Massa) for the "terrible" (Reed) because I can't have my "perfect" (a grown up Democrat).

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by: ENR37 @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 00:47:37 AM UTC

Not the way the locals see it. (4.00 / 1)

Just came back from a presentation on Health Care very close to Massa's district.  Lots of the audience lived in his district.  Massa is a cancer survivor, and a huge single payer advocate.  He has been very consistent in what he has said he stands for on health care through BOTH elections-- the first one, which he lost, and the second one, which he won.

There is enough wrong with this bill that some people (like, say, Dr. Dean) don't support it.  Massa is one of them.  He has an agenda on health care, and it is an admirable one.  Many in his district are behind him.  And, it is not remotely clear that anything in particular will or will not pass because he votes his conscience on this.  

I find it interesting that the same folks who decry strict party discipline in the NYS legislature seem to favor it in Congress.  Massa is, genuinely, an independent-minded cuss-- progressive, but, his own man.  That's part of how his mostly-right-leaning district can like him enough to elect him, and he proceeds to teach them to like some very progressive ideas.  It works for a lot of the locals.

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by: robinia @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:31:34 AM UTC

Dr. Dean (4.00 / 2)

Dr. Dean was a HUGE supporter of the House bill Massa voted against. It was only the final Senate version Dean couldn't stomach. He stuck with most of the iterations up to that point, including the 55 plus Medicare buy-in that Lieberman killed.

I could live with Massa's independence from party goals, but not when he uses right-wing reasoning, which he very often does.  Democrats will have to expend huge quantities of time and treasure to keep him in this seat; it would be nice if he didn't make a practice of selling us down the river.  And I say this as a resident of a neighboring district that is even deeper red.

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by: Historical Pessimist @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:54:46 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, I might also point out (4.00 / 1)

that Dr. Dean changed his stance on the Senate bill as well.  

The reality check is that the two whom the various progressive groups went all out to get elected in this state voted against the bill.  The representative who they didn't bother with, because he wasn't "progressive enough" for them, Owens, did.    Another reality check is that single-payer was never going to pass, and it was taken off the table right away.  It still isn't going to be passed.  Thankfully, there's still a chance to pass some form of HCR, but the poutrage from various groups is not helping.  

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by: Norbrook @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 04:53:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I hope so (4.00 / 1)

I'm not familiar very much with the details of his district, but there are too many crucial votes he is still on the wrong side of.  But the house health bill would have helped his district enormously and it's a shame he voted against it.  

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by: Roatti @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 07:28:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Come pay us a visit (4.00 / 2)

I'm starting to think the Upstate folks on this site should start holding tours for Downstate folks to come check out the scenery and get in touch with the electorate.

Maybe during the fall colors?  Or NASCAR at Watkins Glen?

robinia and I are pretty close to Ithaca's blue, but you don't have to go too far west to be in completely red territory, including Massa's district, where I grew up.

(I do get to NYC a few times a year; Long Island not so much admittedly.)

And much to my surprise, I'm finding myself giving worse odds for Arcuri's re-election than Massa's re-election.  That's at least partly because I agree with Arcuri more often.

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by: simonstl @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 14:02:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No kidding (4.00 / 2)

You're right, simonstl, that this post shows a complete lack of insight into the politics of the district.  

Massa won a squeaker as an independent voice, not as a Democrat.  He'll win again that way, in part because he takes positions that he thinks are best, not the party's positions.

The choice in the 29th is someone like Massa or a Republican.  There's no way a primary from the left would work at all.  And there's no way that party chairs in the area would support it -- they all love Massa.

I don't agree with Massa's position on HCR, but I don't think it's crazy, and it sure is consistent with his campaign promises (which were all about single payer).  

Massa is also one of the few who had town hall meetings and stood up to angry teabaggers day after day.  The guy doesn't lack any guts.  He may be wrong, but he's not a shrinking political violet.

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by: rottenchester @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 17:27:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks! (0.00 / 0)

You said exactly what I mean, and did a much better job of it than I did.

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by: robinia @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 02:27:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's fine but he can't have it both ways (0.00 / 0)

If he just said he had to vote with his district, I wouldn't like it, but I would respect it a hell of a lot more than Massa's current attempt top have his cake and eat it too.  He can vote against Obama to try to shield himself from a GOP challenger but then to turn around and use that to get support from the netroots base is just disingenuous and frankly, we're not too fucking stupid to fall for that.  

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by: Roatti @ Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 23:09:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

why are you complaining again now? (0.00 / 0)

Apart from the fact that this thread already cooled off...

Massa set a high standard for what it would take for him to vote in the interests of his district as opposed to what his district wants.

You may not like it, but it was certainly a good way to make clear how he represents his district, a key argument that he's going to need to make in November.

Please remember that he represents the 29th district, not you. If you don't want to donate to him, that's fine.  I'm sure you'll be happy to shift the money to Mike Arcuri, who voted the way you wanted but whose seat in danger in large part as a result of that... or is he too Blue Dog for you?

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by: simonstl @ Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 23:57:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Like I said, that's fine (0.00 / 0)

he just can't have it both ways.  He can try to hew to the opinions of his district but he can't then turn around and try to pass himself off as a champion of progressive values.  It's one or the other.  

As for the thread, I went on vacation for a week and just got back.

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by: Roatti @ Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 05:28:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hmm. (0.00 / 0)

Got that right on Arcuri, Simon.  I just signed on as campaign coordinator for Tompkins; am seriously gonna put some shoulder to the wheel, 'cuz, you know, these are some seriously gerrymandered districts.

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by: robinia @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 02:25:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I would love to (0.00 / 0)

Let's set it up.  But regardless of the particularities of any district, the truth is that the House HCR bill will benefit every single congressional district.  

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by: Roatti @ Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 23:06:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

FYI: The House Health Bill Passed (4.00 / 1)

I think the major question here is whether the bill's passage was really in doubt when the time came for the congresscritters to plug in their little ID cards in the little voting machines on the House floor and vote, and/or when Massa announced he'd be voting one way or the other.

I have no problem with a Dem claiming the bill isn't good enough and attempting to please both sides in a relatively red district with that decision, so long as the justification is not made from the hard right using GOP talking points, and so long as they could reasonably expect their vote would not be the one that killed the measure.

Saving that seat is important, passing the bill is important, and keeping the pressure from the left on the House leadership (and by extension, the Senate) really is important.  Massa's vote, on its face, would seem to further the first and third of those without having imperiled the second.  All in a day's work?

Make no small plans.

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by: demahir @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 21:07:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

True (0.00 / 0)

but by a tiny handful of votes.  It wasn't a gimme by any means and Massa made the leadership's work and increased the need for terrible concessions to people like Bart Stupak.

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by: Roatti @ Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 23:07:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]