NYS budget cuts - misplaced priorities

Thankyou for putting this in context (4.00 / 1)

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by: hearthmoon @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 17:24:11 PM UTC

Very good points (4.00 / 1)

I'm all for people working for the government making enough money.  All workers should earn exactly what they are worth.  Not a penny more and not a penny less.

Some bueracrats I'm sure are worth $100K.  That's a lot of money.  Or at least it should be.

This is one of those issues on where I feel right and left can find some common ground.  The parks issue itself has common ground to begin with...

Very good points.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 20:29:06 PM UTC

I just used these cuts as examples (0.00 / 0)

I'm sure others can come up with their own favorites

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by: AnswerLady @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 at 23:26:49 PM UTC

Here's my favorite: (4.00 / 1)

Return to the pre-Pataki tax cut income tax schedule.  Top earners in NY have not paid enough income taxes for the past 10 years, and now we are down to having to sell off our parks, for pete's sake.  Just collect the revenue, already.  Progressive taxation works.

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by: robinia @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 02:07:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

In some cases listed (0.00 / 0)

I don't see the salaries as being out of line.  They're quite justifiable for the market.  There are those that make you wonder, though, and yes, they should be looked at carefully.  

It's like that with overtime pay.  I know why there's a lot of it in some instances - it's because there simply isn't the staff to cover the responsibilities.  Sometimes it's because there's an actual need for it - I know that every time a hiker gets themselves lost, it requires Forest Rangers to put in overtime to look for them.  That said, I think we do need to look askance when there's cases like one in this morning's news - that two groundskeepers for one of the SUNY's had massive overtime payments.  I'm trying to figure out why that would be necessary.  

I'm not against athletics, but I often wondered why the SUNY centers felt the need to become Division 1 schools in sports.  It's a tremendous financial obligation, and as the recent events with the SUNY Binghamton basketball program have shown, poses real ethical issues for what is, in the end, a state university.  

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by: Norbrook @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 01:34:02 AM UTC

Market prices? (4.00 / 1)

Surely you jest. Many of these high rollers could not get minimum wage for their services in the current market. Just what would a former engineering Dean or lit professor (presumably all over 50) get in today's market. Unemployment wages, till those expire.

Real unemployment is close to 20% in NY State - and closer to 40% in cities like Buffalo. Impoverished communities cannot afford to pay $150K PLUS benefits (pension being the biggest) for teaching or hustling non-existent corporate dollars for R&D. The same is even more true for those myriad and highly overpaid administrators in colleges/universities. Maybe these folks might want to free-lance, go into consulting, start up internet businesses - yeah right. After all, the same consulting can be obtained at much lower prices in a market with little demand (= dollars to spend on items, worthy or unworthy), but at much lower prices. or maybe these same services can be obtained from overseas, like India. Welcome to the brave new world, which is not pretty once you get outside the cozy confines of NY State's SUNY world.

But, maybe you don't like being called Surely?

Nb41

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by: Nb41 @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 14:29:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bullshit (0.00 / 0)

people are getting hired out of grad school for both those jobs at $100K In this economy.

Do they make to much? Perhaps. But the question is academic. If you want qualified people, there's not that many of them, so they get to dictate the price.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 14:36:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If you want accountants and auditors (0.00 / 0)

who weren't last in their class at SCLSU, or if you want to get people with the appropriate degree for SUNY leadership, or have a department of mental health (at all), you better not cap pay at $100G.

I know you think that no one on earth should make more than you do, but some people have to, its called market rate, its a part of supply and demand, and its a fact of life.

Solution: When my county went bankrupt, we laid off between 50 and 70% of our staff from every department in the county. Then we examined who was struggling and who was truly fucked by that action, and let the the struggling people suck it up and deal and the truly fucked hire 5-10% more staff back. Rinse, repeat until things stopped being closed. We ended up cutting our staff by about 1/3rd.

I'd rather have 15 people in a department making $125K and working their asses off than 40 people making $100K and sitting on their hands because they can.

As I've told you before, athletics triggers millions in donations,  applications, and local goodwill to these schools that you can't see in your budget statements. Becoming the only state without athletics in our schools is heartless. The other 49 make it work financially.

If a poor kid without a prayer in life gets to graduate from UB because he earned a football scholarship and ends up with a better life as a result, that's pretty awesome, YA THINK?

Now that last idea, cool. Also, raise tuition for in state students; its ludicrously low. Also charge more at the schools kids want to go to like every other state in the union.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 14:33:26 PM UTC

Make the cuts in Albany's hide (0.00 / 0)

I don't necessarily agree that we should be making drastic cuts in regards to SUNY. I don't, however, believe the state should subsidize the education of those from out-of-state.

And hile I don't necessarily believe that State employee salaries should be capped at $100,00 (there are many professionals such as physicians that wouldn't be in the public sector otherwise), I think it goes to show that perhaps many state employees should share in this budget-crisis burden.

For example, there is an office in the Department of Education that's sole purpose is to file countersuits against families that have successfully sued public school districts (at their great expense, I might add) to have their disabled child placed in an appropriate education setting. The office is called the "State Review Office" and it's budget is about $12 million. What kind of sick State do we have when we dedicate so much of our tax dollars to a group of lawyers that do nothing but make appeals against parents of disabled children who've already bankrupted themselves by advocating for their child? How cynical is that? Remove that office and you've made up 2/3 of the shortfall for our State Parks.

Also, there are 62 State Senators and they average office budgets of more than $750,000 (Morahan and Leibell have staff budgets of near $1 million). That's about $46-47 million just for the Senate. Add in the expenses for the 150 State Assembly members and the figure balloons to $219.5 million for expenses for both. Is this really necessary? These are legislators, not barons. I understand money needs to be spent on constituency services, what our legislature gets is ridiculous.

Albany spares no expense in keeping Albany running (even if they're incapable of getting anything done). Those close to power make no sacrifices. Those with no power make the sacrifices.  

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by: cliffweathers @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 15:33:42 PM UTC

more blah, blah, blah from amherstboy (0.00 / 1)

What he seems to forget is that there is not much private industry left in the US.  We valued it so highly we shipped all overseas. So when these overpaid bureaucrats could get more else, where exactly would that be?

I challenge any of these people to go find more else where, good luck.  What's the worst that could happen, we bring in some lower cost, fresh faces with new ideas?

And the obligatory athletics bring in donations blah, blah.  It s going to have to be a lot of donations to make up for the $17 million that state subsidized UB alone last year. UB's endowment fund is less than $15 million.  It looks like athletics hasn't even been covering their for one year, not to mention the 10 year+ build up /spending spree that UB went on.

Same with the oh, research brings in some many bucks line.  The over $100,000 crowd cost the state about $3 billion and brought in $850 million in research bucks (UB research foundation).  Didn't even come close to covering costs.

But, I realize logic dosen't count for much in amherstboy land. Prattle on amherstboy

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by: wdalyic @ Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 19:15:52 PM UTC

If the endowment is that small (0.00 / 0)

It seems to me that improving that would be a great place to start improving the states finances. My 1,800 person college added $100,000,000 to its endowment in 7 years. You mean to tell me UB, with nearly 200,000 living alumni can't do the same?

The worst that could happen is that the faculty ends up hating the administration and leaves or the new people bankrupt the schools.

Universities aren't supposed to turn a profit. They're supposed to educate our young people. I don't understand how you so-called liberals can be so anti-education and anti-teacher; am I to assume that you are all phonies? Our state's best school is THIRTY-SEVENTH in university education. Its embarrassing that our kids get such a great high school education and then in college fall behind NASCAR states as Georgia, North Carolina and Texas.

I'm all for cutting the budget. But Leave SUNY ALONE.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:12:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH (0.00 / 0)

It not anti-education to question the bloated salaries administration and management are earning in higher ed.  In fact, it appears to be down right popular these days:

http://chronicle.com/article/A...

http://www.nmpolitics.net/inde...

http://chronicle.com/article/C...

http://www.thenewstribune.com/...

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by: wdalyic @ Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 16:28:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

blah blah blah blah. (0.00 / 0)

Just being mature.

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by: Amherst Guy @ Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 16:59:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

one of the things (0.00 / 0)

you are known for, I'm sure.

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by: wdalyic @ Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 17:23:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]