SD-46: A Three-Ring Circus No More

Tip Jar & Cross-Post (4.00 / 1)

Tim Carney has sworn an oath to use all his powers to prevent Luke Martland being elected dog-catcher in Albany County....

Tips for the Albany County Dog Catcher!

Cross-posted on Soundpolitic.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 17:03:02 PM UTC

Breslin (4.00 / 2)

So a progressive Democrat means that one is qualified to judge the merits of any candidate to determine if they are worthy. Apparently progressive means omniscient and omnipotent. To my knowledge Neil Breslin has never challenged the petitions of any Democrat that wanted to run against him. All Neil Breslin did was to run against a popular incumbent and gain the Senate seat back from the Republicans. Since then Neil has shown himself to be a strong ally for labor, a staunch defender of reproductive choice and an advocate for human rights and marriage equality. Neil has never used Republican strategists or Republican election lawyers to disenfranchise Democrats.
Your candidate has to convine Democrats to vote for him, spending campaign funds to invalidate over 1000 Democratic signatures shows that he is destined to be an epic failure.
The Pride Agenda and the trade unions have endorsed the only progressive Democrat in this race, Senator Neil Breslin.

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by: theAl @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 17:34:38 PM UTC

You are persistently ignorant (0.00 / 0)

Where in this diary do I claim to be omniscience or omnipotence?  I just call 'em like I see 'em.  And I'm calling you out as a Breslin troll.  You don't do anything here except spread the same trolling filth on each SD-46 diary I post.

It's starting to look as pathetic as the Carney campaign.  But everytime you raise the same old fantasies, I'll be here to make sure reality has it's day in the sun, point-by-point:

Breslin didn't run against a "popular incumbent" to get his seat in 1996.  He defeated a one-term Republican who replaced a Democrat who'd been in there since the seventies!  Stop trying to muck up the waters with your repetition of historical lies ala Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.  That "popular incumbent" just last year lost election to Town-freaking-Supervisor in the most Republican town in the county, Al!  How convenient you left that little detail out...oh, that's right, leaving out details is what Breslin trolls do best!

Breslin has only recieved the support of the organizations you mention because he's one of three brothers who hold county-wide office.  Labor, Choice, and Marriage Equality advocates are going to be drawn to support him, even when he and the entire Senate Democratic leadership has failed to deliver, especially when it comes to marriage equality.  You want a Senator who will stand up for marriage equality?  Vote for the candidate running for his own right to marry: Luke Martland.

The same thing goes with local attorneys.  The Martland campaign asked plenty of Democratic lawyers to take care of their routine campaign law compliance tasks that any campaign needs a lawyer to take care of.  The thing about Albany County is that the Breslins will destroy your career if you dare to do such a thing, or will at least intimidate you to that effect, so Martland's campaign hired the attorneys who accept the job offer.  Enough with this blind paranoia about lawyers...it makes you look as dumb as Carney made himself look.

And enough with the bull about Breslin never throwing anyone off the ballot, or petition challenges being bad for democracy.  Two words:  Grow up!  The only thing bad about a petition challenge are the partisans who like you who come out of the woodwork and try to raise a big stink about it in hopes that people who don't know anything about the political process will read it, agree with you, and continue to vote for the same chump again.

Guess what?  We have laws to make sure campaigns are legitimate, and we have courts to ensure that our laws are enforced for the public good, and said laws were applied in said courts and determined that Tim Carney's efforts were illegitimate.  So here's a newsflash for you: petition challenges are part of the democratic process.

Omniscent...ha!  Where's your usual prediction about Breslin winning by an even wider margin than 2008 now that he's up against only one challenger who has ten times as much money as his last two challengers and is actually being covered in the press this year?

Omnipotent...ha!  You're just impotent.  

See you 'round...

That's not a prediction :-)

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by: Soundpolitic @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 18:29:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A "Breslin troll"? (4.00 / 1)

So people that support other candidates are trolls?

You are losing your perspective here my friend.

It is one thing to have a difference of opinion over candidates and to even get heated over those differences. It is something else all together to call your opponent "troll" when they are supporting a candidate that is in fact been a strong friend to labor, women, minorities and progressive causes in general. You may have your reasons for preferring another option then Senator Breslin but you've lost it when you start calling your opponents on this side of aisle trolls and other words I see thrown around above.

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by: Andrew C. White @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 20:04:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

he may not be a troll (0.00 / 0)

but he's not very good at coming up with much new to say.  

Kinda like our friend from SD-6.

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by: simonstl @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 21:02:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yup. There's at least one in each race (0.00 / 0)

And it's becoming more and more common here.  One of us who's been here a while will start covering a race, and then a new name shows up, spouting verbatim talking points from another campaign, always right after somebody posts something (pay attention to the time & dates of diaries and comments, people, the pattern is undeniable) and they'll do it each and every time.  

They add nothing valuable to the conversation; they show up immediately and persistenly, and in doing so make clear that they are attempting to hijack the thread, throw sludge over the argument, and most likely are doing so at the behest of an actual campaign under this easily-abused guisse of "anonymity" on the blogs.  They are taking advantage of this site's existence and it undermines what I believe to be our purpose here.

So yes, he's a troll in my book.  And at least all I'm doing is saying so and not actually hide-rating his comments...the way many a Breslin concern troll has troll-rated the tip jars in my other SD-46 diaries.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 21:35:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Breslin (4.00 / 1)

Head to head, three candidates or a dozen, Breslin will get 66 and 2/3 of the vote. Hoblock had been a long time Town of Colonie board member and won County Executive in 1991 before winning State Senate in 1994. Until Neil beat him he appeared unbeatable.
Call names and defend the undefendable, in the end the voters will decide and in a primary that means informed voters.

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by: theAl @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 18:54:18 PM UTC

Did I miss where you mentioned Martland (4.00 / 1)

being the one that challenged Carney's signatures and got Carney knocked off the ballot?

Did I miss the part where you mentioned Martland using local professional Republican election lawyers to do the dirty deed?

James Walsh is the new Republican go-to lawyer for playing legal electoral games now that previous go-to guy Tom Spargo has been dis-barred.

While such petition challenges are a normal, sometimes righteous, sometimes dirty, part of New York politics Martland has seriously sullied his own name by using Walsh to do this. He came into this race sounding like a potentially good challenger but all this accomplished was to make himself look like a Republican stooge.

Whether he is one or not I have no idea but he clearly does not understand that the enemy of your enemy in politics (especially Albany or Rensselaer County politics) is not necessarily your friend if you have any claim to integrity as a progressive.

Peace,

Andrew

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by: Andrew C. White @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 19:58:51 PM UTC

Yes, you did miss it. (4.00 / 1)

And all I can say is that I miss you, man.  I miss the way you did stuff when you running Darius Shahinfar's campaign.  You weren't like this, not at all.

Yes, you missed the part where I address this straw-man's argument of a Democratic challenger hiring a Republican lawyer.  Whatever happened to the whole "new politics" that Darius stood for?  Would he have used such a non-issue to smear his opponent as a "Republican stooge?"

I doubt it.

And yes, you missed the part where I point out, as Marland's campaign manager himself has put forth on this very site, that the Martland campaign couldn't get a Democratic attorney to work for them.  Why?  Because as I said: the Breslin's have an intimidating hold on local politics, and part of maintaining it is threatening to blacklist any Democratic attorney who dares to help a challenger shuffle papers.  

Come on over to Albany County and challenge Mike Breslin for County Executive next year...you'll end up having to hire a Republican attorney, too.  By the way, I'll support the hell out of you...if it's the old you.

And yes, you missed the part where I explain that if there was petition challenge in the state that was warranted, it was against Tim Carney.  Have you been paying attention to his antics in Albany these past few years?  This is like the third time in a row he's been knocked off the ballot!  He's a serial freakin' offender, and he deserved to be knocked off the ballot.  If anything, the Martland camp's made a courageous and commendably risky move in doing this if only because they must have known that Breslin supporters would turn this non-issue into a big stink-fest against Martland, and only the casual political watcher will buy the argument.  Like I said: it's an argument that appeals to the lowest common denominator.  

And you, of all people, just made it!

So what is it, Andrew?  Are petition challenges righteous or dirty, or are they just normal, and therefor, if you try to use a normal thing to make a candidate you don't support appear abnormal, just how sound does your reasoning look?  Do you end up looking righteous, or...

...I respect you too much to say it.  All I can say is what I said before: I miss the old you, man.  Back then you wouldn't just say "this guy's been a progressive in general."  You used to give specifics, and the specifics on Breslin being some wonderful progressive are something I haven't been able to find.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 21:52:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's not a non-issue (4.00 / 1)

Using the Republicans hired guns is getting into bed with them. Martland has badly dirtied his name here.

And if you think these comments are one iota different then anything I've done or said in the past then you are very, very wrong.

Martland made a huge mistake here whether knowingly or not I am not in a place to judge but mistake it is either way.

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by: Andrew C. White @ Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 23:46:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not in a place to judge (0.00 / 0)

I can agree with you on that point.

Certainly not when that RebootNY website you're running features that "I hope this election is a throw-the-bums-out massacre" message at the top of the page.

Luke Martland signed that goofy Ed Koch Uprising pledge that the website features favorably, but you're not here touting your pledge.

Heck, Neil Breslin is featured on the "Which Bum is My Bum?" electoral map.

And for the record, I'm sick of hearing trash talk about Democrat trial lawyers from the right and about Republican election lawyers from the left.  You're right: complete non-issue.  Thanks for bringing it up.

For the record, here's my advice: if you want to change the way election law works, then change the laws.  Can't get the laws changed?

Change the freakin' law-maker, already...right, Reboot?

Oh, and thanks for making it seem like I mislead readers in your initial comment.  You said you "missed" the part about the Martland campaign being the ones to challenge the Carney petitions as though I failed to report this key fact.

Check out paragraph three, sentence two, above:

...this time the Martland campaign sued in State Supreme Court...

Oh, and that link to the TU blog might have cleared things up for anyone who did miss it.  Thanks for the concern...

...I said what I meant, stand by it, and will leave your lack of specifics to speak for itself.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Wed Aug 11, 2010 at 02:32:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You have really lost it (0.00 / 0)

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by: Andrew C. White @ Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 00:13:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Keep it for yourself (0.00 / 0)

I've "lost it" for what?

For pointing out what I believe to be inconsistencies in your current arguments?

For pointing out that you made it seem like I was witholding information from readers when in fact I was giving the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

For pointing out how baffled I am that such stuff is coming from someone I continue to hold out such respect for?

I've lost it, eh?

People: See what coming out in support of a Breslin challenger gets you right off the bat around here?

Yeah.  I can't take it anymore, either.  I'm posting the link that's the starting point for stopping it:

Luke Martland for State Senate

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by: Soundpolitic @ Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 05:17:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The ad hominem (0.00 / 0)

as well as the pretzel logic.

You've tried to be very "kind and gentle" about it but every time I have disagree with you regarding this race you have "kindly and gently" impugned my character and not so kind and gently stated that I am, or others are, on Breslin's payroll.

Similarly you attack Carney, Breslin, me, and RebootNy for Martland's actions.

You claim Martland is the progressive reformer fighting the machine while it is Martland that knocked Carney off the ballot. I see no claims of actual fraud on Carney's part. According to the paper is was the normal nit-picking excuses which campaigns use to challenge petitions. You rightly state that this is "normal."

But isn't that the problem? Isn't that sort of political hackery the norm? Isn't that the problem a "progressive reformer" would be attempting to change? How can you claim the reform mantle while engaging in "normal" political hackery?

If Carney committed actual petition fraud as appears to be the Nan hayworth case then prove it and I'll stand down on that argument but according to what I read in the paper it was just normal every day political hackery.

You then go on to challenge me and bring up my work with a previous campaign to somehow defend your position... except... we had the opportunity to challenge our opponents petitions and it sure would have been to our benefit to do so... but we didn't. How is my challenging this political hackery and my not engaging it in previously evidence of inconsistency on my part?

The answer is that it is not.

The inconsistency is on the part of someone claiming to be a progressive reformer using a republican hatchet man lawyer to knock another democrat off the ballot for nothing more than nit picky nonsense that is part of the problem of opening up ballot access to challengers. That is inconsistent. I note for the record that the incumbent did not challenge anyone's petitions though it certainly would have been to his benefit to do so.

For the record, I have reviewed petitions in the past and in one case recommended a challenge (which was successful) based on the obvious fraud I saw of page after page of signatures being in the same handwriting as the witness statement. There are reasons for petitions rules, reviews and challenges. But most of these cases are nit picky nonsense designed to shut down ballot access. If Carney's people engaged in real fraud of the sort I just described or of the sort described in the Nan Hayworth post this morning then challanging him was perfectly legit and the right thing to do. If, as it was reported in the papers, most of the challenged signatures were knocked off because of address problems then it was just what you called it... normal... and what I called it... political hackery.

You further claim that Martland couldn't get a Democratic lawyer because of Breslin intimidation in Albany County.

Nonsense.

First, licensing is a statewide thing not county level and Walsh is from Binghamton so Martland could have gone anywhere in the state to get a lawyer to work for him.

Second, Albany County Democratic politics has several camps within it. At least one of which would be more than overjoyed to work against one or both Breslin's. The progressive faction doesn't answer to any "machine" in any case. If any progressive attorney's in Albany refused you it was because of what I said the first time you attacked me for having the nerve to disagree with you which is that Neil Breslin is a strong progressive State Senator that has the support of the vast majority of the progressive community in and around Albany.

They LIKE him. I like him.

And for the record of disclosure on that account... you are obviously working for Martland whether as a volunteer or paid I don't know. I am not working for Carney or Breslin. I know Neil Breslin. I like Neil Breslin. When I was leader of Democracy for the Hudson-Mohawk Region he was very responsive to us and met with us every time we asked. He was very honest and forthright about his beliefs and positions and they matched with those of that very progressive group of people. Consequently we endorsed him when he was challenged by Democrat-turned-Republican-Bruno-funded-crony-turned-Democrat-again-Conners (speaking of Democratic factions in Albany that would be happy to oppose Neil Breslin). Further I have a good friend that works in Breslin's office. I have not however had any contact with Breslin, his staff, my friend, or his campaign since all this began. I don't even know who is running his campaign and purposefully did not sign up for a facebook invite I received for his campaign.

I greatly resent your attempts to impugn my character and imply that I have some how "changed" and am not "the old Andrew." My position has not changed in the least. Neil Breslin is one of the few NY State Senators I think is worth a darn. If Luke Martland is better then great! Hope he wins on his won merits but based on your posts and what I have read about the people he has chosen to associate himself with I for one am not impressed.

And this...

People: See what coming out in support of a Breslin challenger gets you right off the bat around here?

... is exactly the nonsense I am talking about when I say you have lost it. It is a pure bullshit statement intended to imply that I am somehow acting the role of thug.

Excuse me for being quite offended by that particular crock of shit.

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by: Andrew C. White @ Fri Aug 13, 2010 at 21:17:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Go ahead (0.00 / 0)

Be offended.  I stand by my assessment.

And go ahead and call the Martland campaign.  Ask them if I'm being paid to do this.  Ask them if I've been volunteering at all.  The answer will be "no."

Fuck you for insinuating otherwise.  You know me well enough that if I was working for them, I'd disclose it publcly.  Instead, your the one posting ad hominem bullshit.  Why?

Because you've got an organization and an agenda that requires fundraising, and my arguments might just be agreeable to people who would have otherwise supported this RebootNY ruse...if you hadn't taken your own advice and recused yourelf from commenting on this race in the first place like you dida few months ago.  What, did you think I wasn't going to respond?  

And I stand by my assessment that you aren't the old you.  You're ignoring key points.  First, that Carney has submitted poor petitions again and again; Second, that the Pro-Breslin faction raising this issue are raising a non-issue; Third, that if you don't like the laws, change the law-maker.  You have nothing to say about that.  Instead, you're doing shitty damage control just the nameless trolls you've obviously seen plaguing my posts here.  This new bullshit makes you no better.

And yeah, I'll point out what happens to people who come out in support of Breslin challenger here.  It's plain to see.  You come out to support change, and all of sudden people you don't know and much to your surprise people you do know will attempt to smear you to protect their champion.  Just look at the blatant betrayal of trust and respect going on right here: your friends will throw you under the bus to get scraps from off Breslin's table.

You're right, I was trying to be kinder and gentler to you than all the other Breslin ass kissers on these boards.  I respected you, thought you deserved better.  I thought we could actually have a debate on the issues that didn't devolve into this.  Now you go around accusing me of being dishonest in my reporting and working for this guy when you have such a working knowledge of how campaigns pay people.

Is my name on the fucking reports, Andrew?

No.  And you know better.  For that, you can go fuck yourself.  I never insinuated that you were working for Breslin!  Go back and read the fucking thread and quote where I say it, you won't be able to find it.  Who the fuck in impunging whose characer here, White?  I would prove that some of these trolls here are, but like I said, I've already been threatened with a lawsuit by one.  Now how great for democracy and the netroots is that, White?

You haven't even bothered to check anything out about Luke Martland.  If you had, you'd see why I believe in his campaign.  You're just looking out for own fucking political skin.  You don't know shit about this race;  you know somebody who works in a Senator's office.  Good for you.

Go ahead and be offended at that.  You're on vacation as far as I'm concerned, grown too old and sensible for my tatses.  Let me know when you get back, drinks are on me.

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by: Soundpolitic @ Sat Aug 14, 2010 at 00:50:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Guys, I would appreciate you both listening to me for a minute. (4.00 / 1)

Go on, put your ears right up to the monitor...

CALM THE FUCK DOWN.

Seriously. Honestly, right now I don't give two shits who started it, who's right, who's wrong, who's the "real Democrat." If we can't comport ourselves as professionals, and learn to disagree and debate without leaving blood on the walls, then we deserve to get our asses thrown out of here and replaced by people more competent.

This whole thing is going to be settled in less than six weeks by the voters, and sure as hell, no one is going to win any more votes for their preferred candidate by engaging in a shouting match in blog comments.  

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by: Adama D. Brown @ Sat Aug 14, 2010 at 01:51:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]