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SD-3: On Petitions, Grass/Netroots Candidates & How The Game Is Played

by: phillip anderson

Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 15:20:28 PM EDT


Let me preface this post with a brief announcement that I will expand upon later today. I do some consulting on web strategy for a firm that works with the DSCC. More later, but do keep those two words in mind, "web strategy." OK?

That said, I have also advised Jimmy Dahroug off and on for quite some time, never for pay.

Today, Jimmy Dahroug released a statement denouncing the challenge to his nominating petitions and calling the challenge an "act of desperation" from the campaign of Brian Foley.

Democratic State Senate Candidate Jimmy Dahroug responded to objections to his petetions by backers of Brian Foley (as reported in Newsday). "This is clearly an act of desperation by Foley's campaign. He failed to secure our party's nomination at the convention. Now Brian and his backers are nervous about facing me in a primary. So his backers are using underhanded and shady tactics to run away from a fair fight."

"Dahroug issued a direct challenge to Brian Foley: "I'm publicly calling on Brian Foley to stop the undemocratic and underhanded actions of his campaign backers. Brian called for a positive, high-minded race. If he truly is committed to the standard he set, he'll back up his words with action."

Dahroug's campaign filed 1,408 signatures with the Suffolk County Board of Elections, a cushion of over 40% more than the required number. This is about the same number of signatures the Dahroug campaign filed for in its successful 2006 primary race. All signatures were gathered at the homes of registered Democrats by trained Democratic committee members and volunteers. Not a single signature gatherer was paid.

Where to start? Is the challenge to Jimmy's petitions "undemocratic" and "underhanded?" That's a bit of stretch. Is democracy served by such challenges? Doubtful, but it is how the game is played here in New York, for better or worse. Anyone who didn't see this coming after Jimmy submitted a rather anemic 1,408 signatures needs to wake up. Everyone knows the rules and everyone knows that when you need 1,000 signatures, 1,400 just doesn't cut it. Not in this state, anyway.

Compare this performance with that of Don Barber. Playing by the same rules, Barber submitted over 2,600 signatures. Dan Squadron, who is running in a primary against probably the finest election lawyer in the whole state, collected over 8,000 signatures. That's how it's done. That's how one plays this game. There's just no way to challenge numbers like that. Someone like Jimmy, who is on his third run and has essentially been running for five years non stop, knows the rules, yet he still only managed 1,400 sigs. That's pretty sad to say the least.

Foley, who has been in the race only since the night of the Suffolk County Dem convention submitted 3,200 sigs. Yeah, he did pay petition carriers. This isn't an uncommon occurrence. It's great if you can gather a respectable number with an all volunteer effort. It shows some organizational competence as well as real support for your campaign. But, given that those volunteers collected only 1,400 signatures, perhaps Jimmy should have paid petition carriers as well. Just sayin'.

More on the flip...

phillip anderson :: SD-3: On Petitions, Grass/Netroots Candidates & How The Game Is Played
All that said, I think it's time to knock down some truly absurd statements made recently by folks I know and like and who should know better, stuff like this:

...every one of Dahroug's signatures was gathered by a trained petitioner from a registered Democrat in the district, going door-to-door, while many (most? all?) of Foley's signatures were gathered by semi-trained hired help at shopping centers and street corners, often on the outskirts of the district.

That means that Dahroug's petitions are solid, while Foley's are questionable.

This statement is both completely wrong and factually untrue. One, it's highly likely that Jimmy will not even make the ballot. This doesn't make his signatures solid, it makes them insufficient. Second, it's pretty obvious that a good number of those carrying Jimmy's petitions weren't from the district. I know this because many of them are friends of mine. They live here in NYC. I mean, there's a freaking video, for cryin' out loud.

Just please stop telling me that the fact that Jimmy's primary opponent submitted nearly two and a half times as many signatures makes Jimmy's petitions superior and Foley's suspect. I've also talked to a number of folks recently who are trying to tell me that Jimmy's campaign didn't think that petitioning was the best use of their resources and this is why the number was so low. Um, what? I really hate to use this term, but that's just retarded. The campaign had better things to do than talk to voters and, ya know, actually secure a place on the ballot? I'm growing awfully weary of folks making excuses time and time again for progressive candidates that under perform. Please stop.

What it all boils down to for me is basically this. There are true grass/netroots candidates out there. They often are underfunded and often have folks working against them by placing obstacle after obstacle in their way. The successful ones overcome this and they do it the old fashioned way - they work their ass off. Want a good example? Look at Don Barber. The guy has come out of nowhere to a point where he now gets taken seriously by folks on all sides. Don didn't whine about the challenges he has overcome. He's busting his ass up in the 51st and his actually building a hell of a campaign, a genuine people powered movement.

Jimmy is often identified by traditional media types as a darling of the grass/netroots and he certainly has his fans here. But, such candidates do a lot of things that Jimmy simply isn't. Such candidates raise money through entities like ActBlue. Don Barber has raised over $38,000 on ActBlue and even outraised Barack Obama himself last week on ActBlue. Dahroug has raised $190 on ActBlue and recently filed an anemic $22,000 quarter for all his fundraising. Jimmy's single largest contributor was one "Jimmy Dahroug." That's sad.

Successful grass/netroots candidates have to work harder than everyone else. I don't see any tangible evidence that Jimmy is doing that, at least not the way that other candidates have.

Now, don't get me wrong here either. Jimmy is easily one of, if not the, most progressive candidate for any office anywhere in the state. I also know Jimmy personally and I like him a great deal, but, all that progressivism doesn't amount to much if he can't even secure a place on the ballot. A challenge to Jimmy's petitions isn't a "clear act of desperation." It's the way this particular game is played and all the players know the rules. Period.

That's kind of sad, too, but that's just the way things are.

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Petitions/Jimmy Dahroug (0.00 / 0)
I have heard a lot of arguments from a lot of different places against certain candidates and their petition carriers. I have heard from multiple campaigns that their primary opponents' petition carriers were from outside the district. To me, that whole argument is weak. As long as the signatures came from inside the district, I don't care who the petition carriers are. Is it more impressive when you have a volunteer base carrying for you? Definitely. But if you can get a few thousand signatures from people inside the district, who cares WHO gets them? I care more about who signs them.

Truth be told, if I'm running against a guy who only gets 400 more signatures than he needs, I'm going to challenge it too. Such is life in New York. I hate the petitions system. I really do. But as is the case with our campaign finance system, you must live within the system you are given while fighting for a better way. Petitions are the way to go right now. So if my opponent files a number like Jimmy's, I'm going to challenge it.

It is not rocket science to collect signatures. I have done it before with no training. To suggest that one side had "trained" personnel gathering signatures and the other side didn't is absurd. My "training" on getting petition signatures is about a five minute conversation with a candidate about the process.

I will have more on Jimmy later.  


Newsday's Spin Cycle covered this and I was about to Post it. (0.00 / 0)
The Foley people reviewed them all and objected to 506 of the 1408.  I wrote shortly after the filings that these quantities were anemic and that if they are all thrown out it would leave only 902 valid signatures.  As for Dahroug's statement that Foley should be a good small d democrat and not object is the height of political naivete'.  The law exists for a reason, the ability to meet these petition requirements is an indication of a campaigns commitment and capacity to be a serious candidate.  One last point on this issue, I would like to know your source regarding the statement that Foley used paid petition gatherers.  While it is common and not against the law, Dahroug has 83K in the bank and could have paid for those services and it seems should have when he recognized his efforts were coming up so borderline.  I reviewed the witnesses of both filings and I did not recognize a paid gatherers.  I telephoned the Foley HQ but they could neither deny nor confirm the use of any paid gatherers.

Two more pieces of exciting news in the challenges and that is that two District Court Races are up in Islip and the Islip Dems cross endorsed one Rep who is challenging the two party picked nominees.  The Dem supported Rep just challenged the ultra anemic petitions of the organization candidates.  The Islip Committee only gathered 2172 sigs where 2000 were needed.  If enough of the 442 challenged holds up the two Reps are gone, the one cross endorsed insurgent Rep is in and our one Democrat comes in as well!

Finally Ramos challenged Cabreras sigs on the Conservative line while Pat Eddington challenged one of her Dem opponents petitions and one of her IP opponents petitions.

Regarding the sentiments expressed in Jimmy's press release, I would have the follow up question of since he condemns the concept of Foley's challenge does he also condemn the challenges of Assemblymembers Ramos and Eddington?  If he does, Foley will have both these legislators as allies should Dahroug survive the challenge and get to a primary!  Somehow, I do not think he will.  I will be meeting Scott Martel toward weeks end who manages Foley's grassroots efforts to discuss a formal role in the campaign.  It will involve the blogs and netroots and you can bet one of my first questions is how soon can we get that website up and running?  I plan to also get involved with clarifying positions on the major issues while helping to educate the campaign on the importance of the netroots and the issues most important to the TAP community like netneutrality, Clean Elections etc.


Politics64... (0.00 / 0)
The website for Foley should be up and running. There is no excuse why it isn't. I have a lot of questions for Foley, some of which could easily be answered with an "issues" page on a website. Essentially, that's why you have an issues page on your website. You can give people a general idea of where you stand so that they can ask questions.

Foley's campaign wouldn't tell you about paid petition carriers. No campaign in their right mind would. You risk at losing any grassroots "cred" if you just come out and say that you paid people to pass petitions.  


[ Parent ]
75 people versus 15 (0.00 / 0)
75 people circulated Foley's petitions and only 15 carried poor Jimmy's. Is Jimmy trying to claim that Foley hired 75 people? Even in Jimmy's home town of Islip Foley got more signatures than Jimmy.
As for a website you will see that soon enough or you can go right now to the Town of Brookhaven website and see the kind of things that Brian has been doing while Jimmy was spending his time as an assistant in the County probation department after he was exiled from the County Executive's office.

[ Parent ]
I could not agree more with you robinia! (0.00 / 0)
I have questioned Jimmy's campaign work ethic here from day one.

[ Parent ]
Great point socrates (0.00 / 0)
I forgot about the fact that Foley created Brookhaven Townships first truly comprehensive web page.  Also, it is unfair to question the honesty of the answer I got from my call to Foley's campaign regarding paid carriers.  He most likely truly could not answer because the petition process was not under his direct supervision.  I did not notice sigs gathered by signed notary's and normally paid gatherers are notary publics who are capable of guarenteeing their clients unchallengeable sigs due to their careful exerience at verifying all info as correct but they must notarize their witness statements because often they are not even registered in the district of party in which they hire themselves out for.  You can pay college kids to do it as well so long as they are residents in district and party however there will be a lot to challenge among those and the purpose of paying is to get ballot access.  So I conclude if payed people were engaged it did not represent a majority of the 3300 collected and likely far more than Jimmy's totals were gathered by volunteers.

[ Parent ]
Agree (4.00 / 1)
Getting petition signatures is not all that hard.  I often do twenty or so, just myself... and that would be a year where I was only going out a couple of times and, basically, not working at it much-- taking 3 or 4 hours max. In a rural area-- it's faster in a more densely populated place.  Somebody who only got 1,400 signatures total just isn't trying. And $190 on ActBlue! Looks like nobody's doing much calling of voters, either (as well as not going to their doors).

News flash: campaigning is hard work.  Be ready to do it, or be ready to step aside for somebody who is.  If Dahroug wanted to further his progressive agenda, I'd think he would be mighty careful about a lot of namecalling toward somebody who is looking like a probable primary winner from here.  Might need to avoid burning bridges.


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