1199 Continues Down the Republican Dead-End

There's more than meets the eye (0.00 / 1)

I just think Boudin takes a very politically simplistic look at things most of the time. You are right if you just scratch the surface, but I don't think it's a matter of one SEIU not running in circles but rather a contribution by design. This IS 1199 helping the Senate Democrats. There have been reports all year of  1199 doing an about face on the Senate GOP. You are right in it not being a full 100% about face. Or maybe not being fast enough for your taste, but by Albany standards the about face is huge and significant. They helped in the Aubertine race with some major contributions, really major. There's a process sometimes to get to 100%, but I'd rather have the money and TV ad than a stupid announcement any day.

I just scratch my head that you demand 100% of some and then not of others. For example. The Leeds family gave about $200k toward the Aubertine effort through NY EDPAC. Don't kid yourself they are capable of helping the Senate Democrats out with millions. They gave an easy quarter million to help Andrea Stewert Cousins win as well. Then what does Malcom do to blow years worth of working together? He and Democratic Senators like Aubertine vote FOR the stupid 'tax cap' when the Assembly votes FOR the 'circuit breaker' which is the measure all the advocates preferred. If you want 100% backing I just think doesn't the road begin at Malcom's door.  

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by: TruBlu @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:05:46 AM CDT

Blah blah blabbity blah. (4.00 / 1)

I'm not really concerned about being characterized as simplistic by the Silver troll, pal. Roatti and myself raise an important point here obvious to anyone: Diane Savino is much better on labor issues than Joe Robach. It really is that simple.

So, tell me, is it now your policy to trash Malcolm Smith? I've now seen a number of your comments here and on my site - as SKCogswell - trashing the Minority Leader. What gives?

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by: Bouldin @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 10:46:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I guess blah blah (0.00 / 0)

is what a consultant would say when someone dares challenge his vision of the world. Roatti made a post with your post. He linked the issue of 1199 with the benefit of Senate takeover. I never said there aren't benefits to Senate takeover, my point is overall 1199 complexity and that Malcom plays a roll in making things happen or not happen. I know your strategic aim is to place blame squarely on others like Silver and 1199, so I upset that apple cart. Call me names like 'troll' or 'Maltese lover' for having a different opinion than yours or daring to ask questions. I will still keep to good web etiquette no matter what. If someone wants to post with their true name or not, or different names it does not matter one iota to me. If you want to check IP addresses with Phil then I guess you have to get that from him.  

It's not 'trash talking' to mention someone's policy position, even Malcom's. I think it's clear by what I wrote that I don't support the 'tax cap' so hence I don't support Maltese voting for it either. Savino voted against it and I congratulate her on that. I guess we could save a lot of time if you two would post on the main page of TAP the 'no-go' list so everyone knows who's actions can never be questioned here in this community. You'd be restricting the open door nature of discussion here but it would save folks from being called names for raising questions and having opinions. I don't know what the other names mean.  

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by: TruBlu @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 15:19:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So what's you point? (4.00 / 1)

You still havent said why you have rushed to 1199's defense, and by proxy, why you think Maltese and the GOP majority int he Senate should remain in power.  

If you paid attention to my past posts, you would have seen that I criticized Smith's leadership by not allowing congestion pricing to pass.  There are no sacred cows here- at least not on my end.  However, you, Shelly, and any other element of Albany's power structure are a different story.  

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by: Roatti @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 16:04:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, awesome. (4.00 / 1)

So you admit that I'm right, that you're a Silver troll and a disloyal Democrat here to smear the Minority Leader.

So I have to ask why. Is it because he's not Shelly, and you don't care about actually getting stuff done so long as Shelly retains his power? Is it because he's black?

Really, do tell.  

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by: Bouldin @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 07:46:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Can't Argue, Smear (0.00 / 0)

I find your suggestion that I would ever have opinions based on the color of someone's skin utterly offensive. That disgusts me, don't ever do that again.

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by: TruBlu @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 07:57:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sure. (4.00 / 1)

I'm just speculating. So answer the question: why are you smearing Malcolm Smith?

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by: Bouldin @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 08:12:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you're gonna talk tax cap (4.00 / 1)

then I believe your friend Maltese also voted for it.  And let me say for the record that I am not at all surprised that Shelly's biggest fan here is defending the GOP status quo in the Senate.

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by: Roatti @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 11:54:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

He's doing it all over the place. (4.00 / 1)

Over on the two Brinker "blogs", on my site, here, and probably elsewhere. It's a one-man astroturf operation, and it's predictably and always ever the same. Malcolm Smith, bad, Bouldin, very bad, roatti, pure evil, media, in a big TEH CONSPIRACIEZZ!! against the noble Shelly, all that good stuff.

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by: Bouldin @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 12:02:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

lol (4.00 / 1)

you're so addicted to that brinker poison- do you also read Jerome Corsi?  Just kidding

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by: Roatti @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 12:59:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm not addicted by any means. (0.00 / 0)

I'm just right now slightly irritated at this guy's hypocritical posturing. I don't even mind that he's spent the last few months lying about you, me, and Phil. But he could at least try to be interesting. As it is, he's not. Shelly should spend his money more wisely, because this guy isn't very good.  

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by: Bouldin @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 16:01:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

he's an obsessive stalker and his lapdog is a bigot (0.00 / 0)

If some fringe lunatic can't find anything better to write about in NY state than to bash bloggers, then I guess it means we're the most important thing in the world to him. So more power to him on his lunatic slander crusade.  I'm just as surprised as you that Shelly is still wasting his money on him after generating zero netroots support for Shelly, looking like the complete pathetic idiot he is for everynody to see, and having nobody read his sorry website.  And not to mention that the primary season is over and no one here is talking about Shelly anymore.

But whatever floats his boat, I guess.  

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by: Roatti @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 16:56:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Shelly wants netroots support... (4.00 / 1)

He should start showing that he deserves such support. Hiring someone to try and get that support isn't going to help. If Shelly implemented, say, the Brennan Center's recommendations, that would be something that sends a tickle up my leg.

And imagine if he made a concerted effort to reform our broken campaign finance system. Double the tickling.

The only one who can help Shelly is Shelly. He's the leader of the Assembly. He can start acting like it.  

Support our troops, not the war.

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by: robert.harding @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 17:26:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Amen, brother (0.00 / 0)

Let me say categorically to Shelly or anyone else who cares:

If Shelly institues rules reform, the Brennan Center recommendations, campaign finance reform, and redistricting reform and actually lifts a finger to help win the Senate by giving some money (and not just on the weekend before the election, as he so loves to do) as Dan Jacoby suggests, then I will become his biggest promoter.   And Jerome Corsi Carl Brinkers can quote me on that.

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by: Roatti @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 17:31:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm here... (0.00 / 0)

I just don't log in or post much anymore, lest I be told to shove something up my @$$ if I disagree with some of the anti-Assembly, anti-Silver sentiment here.

I do read this blog a lot because I very much appreciate the updates on the Senate races, but please don't misinterpret my silence. I remain grateful to the Assembly and its leadership and hope that the Senate Dems win and are as progressive on the issues as the Assembly. I admit to sharing some of TruBlue's concerns re/ Malcolm's postions on issues. I'm an issues gal. I am hopeful that once the Dems run the Senate, they will see the light. I'm glad the Assembly is holding the torch.

And since I'm in such a zen mood, let me remind folks that our party's standard-bearer and the next President of the United States (God willing)is encouraging us to work together, not rip each other apart.

   

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by: justthinking @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:29:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We have had similar debates here before... (4.00 / 2)

Let's put it all out on the table: You are trying to pit the Assembly Democrats versus the Senate Democrats. Period. Here at TAP, myself and others have been accused of being pro-Senate Democrats and anti-Assembly Democrats. Of course, that's false. But you have consistently tried to push this imaginary conflict.

The tax cap and circuit breaker votes are meaningless. Both were dead on arrival because the Senate GOP wanted the tax cap and the Assembly Dems wanted the circuit breaker. You aren't going to see them find common ground on that.

I don't think it should be so hard for all Democrats, whether in the Assembly or Senate, to want to elect more Democrats. The Assembly Democrats should be fighting for a Democratic Senate because then legislation like the circuit breaker doesn't go down the drain. I would think the Assembly Democrats would be rooting on a Democratic Senate.

Or maybe they aren't. Maybe they would rather keep it the way it is because then they can blame their inaction on the Senate GOP. With a Democratic Senate, you can't really do that (unless you want to start party infighting).  

Support our troops, not the war.

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by: robert.harding @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 15:24:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I definitely agree with the "maybe they aren't" (4.00 / 1)

for at lease a portion of the Assembly caucus.  

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by: Roatti @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 16:05:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I love putting it all on the table (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for that invite. For starters I've got the right site, right? This is the one that called for primaries on Rory Lancman, Audrey Pheffer and Cathy Nolan for simply distributing Speaker literature on primary day. For handing someone a palm card, please. You may call that "imaginary" but I respectfully call it denial. Denial of how a year's worth of Assembly critter bashing might be perceived by some of your readers. Maybe others feel intimidated by the pack mentality but I'm a free thinker and like to challenge the pack. I don't mind the dogpile so have at me. From the comptroller fight, to congestion, to the Speaker primary and stuff in between, it's been a year's worth of attacks. I point out the hypocrisy and get labeled GOP lover. Name call me all you want, at least I sleep well at night that I've done nothing my whole life but work on progressives causes, with advocates, for democratic causes and for Democrats. I've never been a part of running against anything but a Republican ever and never will. And I hold everyone to the same standard, not just the groups I favor. As an aside, I happen to have the most respect for you Harding. You are like an old soul. I like what you write about, how you write, and how you see things. We will agree that the Senate needs to flip to get true progressive policy passed. But on where the impression that this site is pro Senate and anti Assembly started, on that we won't agree.

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by: TruBlu @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 19:59:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Our disagreement in a nutshell: (0.00 / 0)

I've never been a part of running against anything but a Republican ever and never will.

In overly gerrymandered districts and with a humongous majority, too many (but certainly not all) Assembly Democrats sucuomb to the temptation to just dissapear- hence the empty-seat voting that lasted for way too long.  You think that just because someone has a (D) next to their name, they can do no wrong.  For me, having a (D) makes me always support them over the (R)- but in a primary, and especially in a situation like we have in the assembly, where there is zero risk of a republican winning the seat or republicans taking control of the chamber, we  have the right, and I would say duty, to put forward the best democrats we can.  I'm not just going to forgive Democrats whose style and political mores harken back to the days of Tamanny Hall.  Nor will I support Democrats in primaries who accumulate way to much power, that give them a stronger legislative veto than the Governor has.  And when some Democrats are part of the Albany structure that is running our state into the ground, I will not look the other way.  At least in a primary election.  

Honestly, I think this is a generational thing.  Or maybe it's a difference between classic liberalism and movement progressivism.  But anyway, it's all on the table.

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by: Roatti @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 22:54:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well Said (0.00 / 0)

Probably not so much generational. But If as 'movement progressives' you and Bouldin are more at ease 'moving' on a democrat, then why so utterly offended if I point out a bad policy vote of a democrat?  Why then call me Republican lover? Or Malcom hater? I'm just doing what you do.

Do you see how I see how you guys apply this 'movement progressive' standard to only certain democrats you have pre-decided are bad and get offended if others apply it to democrats you decided are good. I may be a classic liberal and won't 'move' on a democrat no matter what, good point, but if you are true 'movement progressives ' it wouldn't bother you a smidgen if I said Malcom shouldn't have voted for a stupid dead tax cap bill that was going nowhere.  When the Leeds are sitting on millions and NYSUT is sitting on $7million and the Senate is hanging in the balance and it was bad policy anyway.  

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by: TruBlu @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 07:46:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have no problem with you pointing out where you have a policy difference with a Democrat (0.00 / 0)

so why do you with me and say, Shelly and congestion pricing?  Don't you think that's a double standard?

Additionally, I'm not so partisan that I do give praise to Shelly when it's deserved, like for his support of the millionaires' tax and being on the right side of most of the issues. If Shelly was jsut a rank-and-file assemblymember, I would have no problem with him.  As Robert always says, it's his leadership that's the problem.  Now can you break from your partisan opinions and admit that there is anything Shelly could do better in his leadership position?

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by: Roatti @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 12:56:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One more thing (0.00 / 0)

primaries can create good results- case point Dan Squadron.  Now he's created the Squadron Fellows program to help with the Senate, which for Connor, was never an apparent priority.  In this case better democrats will likely translate into more democrats.  

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by: Roatti @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 13:01:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hahaha! (4.00 / 1)

Name call me all you want, at least I sleep well at night that I've done nothing my whole life but work on progressives causes, with advocates, for democratic causes and for Democrats.

Slight correction, troll: since February, you've slimed anyone less than worshipful of Shelly Silver, in the course of which you got called out as a liar by the Village Voice, and now, you're spending all your time attacking Malcolm Smith and the Senate Democrats. Before Malcolm, you were smearing, drumroll please, Barack Obama.

Another case in point: me and Phil have never discussed the terms of that consulting contract you can't shut up about. There's a good reason for that: because that's operational intelligence, and we don't want to give the other side that information. But to the Silver troll, that's meaningless, just as it was to your pal Gatemouth. Why? Because you'd rather see Skelos retain his job, because that helps Shelly, who's more likely than not paying you.

As to your bullshit about being "anti-Assembly", shove it up your ass. Have the Assembly change its undemocratic culture, which is what a majority of New Yorkers wants anyway, and see how much love they get. We've been writing about rules reform for years, and that's not going to change until it happens, no matter who we work for.

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by: Bouldin @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 08:11:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why so much anger (0.00 / 0)

I haven't attacked Obama, how would the village voice call me a liar, I've never even seen them post here. I am not a bigot, black hater, brinker, GOP lover, Malcom smearer, troll, or a gatedmouth, or any of the other slang things you called me. I do write comments on blogs but that's the sum total of my web involvement. And I am always civil and correct myself if someone points out I've offended in any way. Who on earth do you think I am I have no blog of my own, I have no idea how to do that and sadly most of my friends spend their time on facebook and don't enjoy politics at all. This is somewhere as a policy progressive I can go to discuss politics. I am a big fan of WFP and a fan of the progressive policies the Assembly has passed from ROCKY reform, to minimum wage increase, paid family leave, welfare grant increase, gun control, clean elections, millionaire tax, 'circuit breaker,' you name it but in blogging here never have I resorted to calling anyone a jew hater for taking issue with Silver's positions. Why denigrate ever, I really abhor that stuff and if someone else is doing it I would denounce that just the same. There is no need for that ever because opinions are different.      

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by: TruBlu @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 08:18:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think the anger is because (0.00 / 0)

you read brinkers and echo his rediculous talking points here.  Like when you got on my case for advocating for a "googlebomb," like it's some sort of violent act- only brinkers is idiotic enough to see a googlebomb as a form of violence, and you're reiterating his poison isn't going to make you many friends here.  

Also, I'm still waiting on your response to my comment above- I have admitted when Shelly does good things, so can you admit anyting less-than perfect about his leadership?

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by: Roatti @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 11:19:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Didn't see that (0.00 / 0)

yes there are things I'd like to see changed. I think I've mentioned it before that I don't believe any disclosure information should be redacted. I am for lifting that. It defeats the whole point of publicly disclosing. Kellner has done that and I congratulated him for doing that. Another pet peeve of mine is that advocates work hard to get bills passed, they spend untold hours meeting and calling and discussing and working. So I would like to see that wherever a bill gets to in the first year, that it start there in the second year or any year after. It shouldn't get sent back to square one ever. If it took two years to get it out of an array of committees it's frustrating when the two years are over to begin the process all over again. I know that may sound like a small thing but to advocates who don't have much money to come to Albany to lobby it is a big deal to preserve ground that is achieved even if a Chairman changes. These are reforms Silver can do. Maybe I have failed to voice these things more so I accept that criticism. I had felt things were one sided at times and perhaps was overly focused on presenting the other side. You have even changed my opinion on things and I think I've said that before.

I have mentioned the consultant stuff and maybe it's none of my business. But for example, you began with (I'm totally paraphrasing) bad SEIU 1199 for publicly endorsing Maltese, good SEIU 32BJ for backing Baby Joe and now I see Addabbo too with the real money which is fantastic. It's all backroom Albany window dressing isn't it, do the public thing so you can smile when what you're really doing is chopping their legs out beneath them. I guess from the outside looking in it just looked like maybe the senate democrats paid consultants to help take Silver out. It's just weird to see one democratic leader do that to another.

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by: TruBlu @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 15:03:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As for SEIU (0.00 / 0)

I really think it's that the locals are independent entities of each other- 1199 has a leadership that has an epic failure to see the big picture and prefers to stick with the power brokers they know, and 32BJ who sees themselves as part of a broader movement and has frankly a much smarter leadership

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by: Roatti @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 23:31:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not buying it. (4.00 / 1)

The evidence suggests that all the messaging I'm talking about originates with one single person. Your denials really don't carry all that much weight where I'm coming from.

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by: Bouldin @ Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 10:48:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

TruBlu... (4.00 / 2)

Let me speak for myself here. I am not anti-Assembly Democrats. I never have been. I come from an Assembly district unlike those seen in New York City. I come from an Assembly district where, chances are, I will be represented by a Republican barring a major scandal or an open seat opportunity. So I root on some of the finest assemblymembers that I know. I've met and had a great discussion with Sam Hoyt who, scandal aside, has been a strong progressive in the Assembly. I respect Joe Morelle, who has done great things for Monroe County in his many capacities. And I'll toss around names like Brodsky, Gottfried and others that have done great things too.

In reality though, I believe this has more to do with Shelly than the Assembly. That's how I see it anyway. After all, there are plenty of great Assemblymembers on our side. The criticisms seen here have rarely (if ever) called out the Assembly Democrats. Most of the criticisms have revolved around the Speaker and his approach to leadership. I have been critical of that approach because as one of the three men in a room and a champion of progressive legislation, he should be the first one saying that it's time to reform the system in Albany and change how things operate. That takes fortitude and power. Shelly has the power to do it, but we have yet to see him have the stomach to do it.

My point in all this is that this is no time to start infighting. This is no time to pit the Assembly Democrats against the Senate Democrats because I don't think either side wants it that way. We should want more and better Democrats EVERYWHERE.

And yes, we should hold Democrats accountable. That is something I believe in. I know that you say that's what you're doing TruBlu, but we need to hold everyone to the same standard. The difference? Malcolm Smith isn't majority leader yet. I don't like playing Miss Cleo and assuming that he's going to be a success or failure. I'm rooting for him to be a success and I hope that he does follow through on his many promises. But Shelly Silver has been Speaker of the Assembly for some time. He needs to show that he's deserving of that leadership post. That's all I'm saying.  

Support our troops, not the war.

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by: robert.harding @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 12:07:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

1199 did a mailing in my district (4.00 / 1)

I got a big, glossy mailer paid for by SEIU 1199 in my mail last week.  I live in SD59, and this mailer was touting how wonderful Dale Volker is.  Dale Volker!  A GOP thug (see how he treats anyone who dares to oppose him, regardless of party,) who was Joe Bruno's capo, and yet that's supposed to be something we should consider ok?  I don't think so.

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by: Historical Pessimist @ Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 18:22:18 PM CDT